T+A Solitaire P planar magnetostatic

[brams]

Interesting that HiFi News has pulled its luke warm review of the Solitaire P that I had linked to earlier. Everyone can draw their own conclusions ...

@Musicalhead
Thanks for your impressions of the new Ultra Wide pads. Pulling the bass and lower midrange down and increasing the treble slightly should result in a better balanced headphone. Of course anyone who loved the original tuning would likely not be satisfied.

Do you know if the headphone will be now supplied with both sets of pads at no additional charge?

@GuyForkes
Definitely agree with your comments on output impedance. All things being equal a close to 0 ohm OI should be better.

For that reason I wondered why my recently acquired Manley Absolute was designed with ouput impedances of 7, 27 and 54 ohms ohms respectively for its Low, Medium and High output impedance settings. However, playing with these settings indicates that the impact on sound quality varies in a manner with different headphones that cannot always be predicted by the rated impedance of the headphone. Specifically, some headphones with low impedance ratings actually sounded better at the medium or high settings and vice versa.

What OI works best depends on how the headphone impedance changes with frequency and the impact on overall frequency response as a result of the too high output impedance of the amp. Basically, in some instances the impact of too high an output impedance can actually correct the response of the headphone .... For planars with a flat impedance curve the only impact of too high an OI would be reduced headphone volume.

 

[DarginMahkum]

The Korean blog I sent before for the HA200 review has also a Solitaire review:

https://translate.google.com/transl...nhn?blogId=luric&logNo=222033789093&sandbox=1

 

[DarginMahkum]

At last had the chance to audition T+A HA200 with D8000 Pro, fed from USB via iPad / Qobuz and Hiby R8. I am very impressed by the DAC amp combo, HA200. I found the tone adjustment possibilities (filters, output impedance, bass/ treble) very useful. It was a good balance of detail and kind of analytical sound without losing stage and dynamics. It sounded neutral, with a clean thickish bass and tamed treble that will not tire you.

Solitaire was an interesting experience. Putting it on just after D8000 Pro, it felt dark and it is on the leaner side, but... I am someone who likes a bit leaner upper mids. It was a comfortable listening, maybe too comfortable. Positioning of the speakers, which are thankfully not sticking to my ears, inside the cups enhances the space perception. I think T+A has their own idea of sound, they seem to have done it well. €4800? I am not sure, but it sounds to be technically up there with other TOTL HPs, but with its own thing.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Hi-Fi+ Issue #187 - September 2020

 

[brams]

I was finally able to listen to the Solitaire P with the new pads at my local dealer yesterday. As before, the amp was the DCS Bartok streaming Tidal via Roon. Although the original pads were not available for direct comparison, I was also able to compare directly to my AKG k872. I chose the k872 because to me its general frequency response is quite similar to that of the Solitaire P. Level matching was done quickly by ear so was probably not very accurate, but for what it's worth, the volume level on the Bartok had to be set about 9.5db higher for the Solitaire P to achieve the same perceived loudness as the k872.

Aural memory is not to be trusted, however it is apparent when music does or does not move you. In my opinion the new pads have done the trick. Once again using Kamasi Washington's "The Epic" as source material, this time the tracks had the sense of drama and dynamics that I expected. The slight bass bloom that had bothered me with the first set of pads was no longer apparent. The midrange remains polite, but detailed, open and clear with obviously very low distortion. More importantly there now appears to be very good integration with the bass and lower treble. The treble, although still reduced relative to other headphones like the Utopia, no longer sounds obviously detached from the bass. Think of the new response as derived from the original by slightly rotating the original response counterclockwise around a point in the lower midrange. It is a subtle yet effective approach that results in a more balanced response and slightly more open presentation without any obvious loss of the positive traits associated with the original pads.

A comparison to the k872 proved to be interesting. I have always been impressed by the k872's balanced presentation and ability to present detail in a natural way that mostly retains the body and tonality of instruments and voices. The Solitaire P with the new pads retains the general signature of the k872, but improves on it in every way with a somewhat warmer, more detailed and more realistic (naturally presented) response. Basically I could have luxuriated in the presentation of the Solitaire P for hours without experiencing any fatigue. It is a compelling signature that provides an excellent alternative to other TOTL headphones.

Anyone on the fence about the Solitaire P should make sure they listen with the new pads. The issue is no longer the price relative to performance, but affordability. Someday I hope to own these. Good job T+A!

 

[DarginMahkum]

I was finally able to listen to the Solitaire P with the new pads at my local dealer yesterday. As before, the amp was the DCS Bartok streaming Tidal via Roon. Although the original pads were not available for direct comparison, I was also able to compare directly to my AKG k872. I chose the k872 because to me its general frequency response is quite similar to that of the Solitaire P. Level matching was done quickly by ear so was probably not very accurate, but for what it's worth, the volume level on the Bartok had to be set about 9.5db higher for the Solitaire P to achieve the same perceived loudness as the k872.

Aural memory is not to be trusted, however it is apparent when music does or does not move you. In my opinion the new pads have done the trick. Once again using Kamasi Washington's "The Epic" as source material, this time the tracks had the sense of drama and dynamics that I expected. The slight bass bloom that had bothered me with the first set of pads was no longer apparent. The midrange remains polite, but detailed, open and clear with obviously very low distortion. More importantly there now appears to be very good integration with the bass and lower treble. The treble, although still reduced relative to other headphones like the Utopia, no longer sounds obviously detached from the bass. Think of the new response as derived from the original by slightly rotating the original response counterclockwise around a point in the lower midrange. It is a subtle yet effective approach that results in a more balanced response and slightly more open presentation without any obvious loss of the positive traits associated with the original pads.

A comparison to the k872 proved to be interesting. I have always been impressed by the k872's balanced presentation and ability to present detail in a natural way that mostly retains the body and tonality of instruments and voices. The Solitaire P with the new pads retains the general signature of the k872, but improves on it in every way with a somewhat warmer, more detailed and more realistic (naturally presented) response. Basically I could have luxuriated in the presentation of the Solitaire P for hours without experiencing any fatigue. It is a compelling signature that provides an excellent alternative to other TOTL headphones.

Anyone on the fence about the Solitaire P should make sure they listen with the new pads. The issue is no longer the price relative to performance, but affordability. Someday I hope to own these. Good job T+A!

K872 is one of my favorite HPs, though I initially found the bass to be a bit overpowering (which was a bit too punchy due to the closed nature). With my second try, I found it somehow more acceptable and bought. I didn't try them side by side, but just from the impression in my memory, I feel like Solitaire nearly had a similarly powered but clearer bass, but darker for the rest. But it was just new out of the box and I was told that Solitaire needs about 150 hours of burn-in , and of course it was with the stock pads.

I now have the HA200 in order and hopefully will receive it next week. When I am there to pick up the HA200, I might give it another try (the shop wanted to keep it running for burn-in). Solitaire one can listen and listen and listen... It had such a comfortable presentation.

 

[Nomax]

I was finally able to listen to the Solitaire P with the new pads at my local dealer yesterday. As before, the amp was the DCS Bartok streaming Tidal via Roon. Although the original pads were not available for direct comparison, I was also able to compare directly to my AKG k872. I chose the k872 because to me its general frequency response is quite similar to that of the Solitaire P. Level matching was done quickly by ear so was probably not very accurate, but for what it's worth, the volume level on the Bartok had to be set about 9.5db higher for the Solitaire P to achieve the same perceived loudness as the k872.

Aural memory is not to be trusted, however it is apparent when music does or does not move you. In my opinion the new pads have done the trick. Once again using Kamasi Washington's "The Epic" as source material, this time the tracks had the sense of drama and dynamics that I expected. The slight bass bloom that had bothered me with the first set of pads was no longer apparent. The midrange remains polite, but detailed, open and clear with obviously very low distortion. More importantly there now appears to be very good integration with the bass and lower treble. The treble, although still reduced relative to other headphones like the Utopia, no longer sounds obviously detached from the bass. Think of the new response as derived from the original by slightly rotating the original response counterclockwise around a point in the lower midrange. It is a subtle yet effective approach that results in a more balanced response and slightly more open presentation without any obvious loss of the positive traits associated with the original pads.

A comparison to the k872 proved to be interesting. I have always been impressed by the k872's balanced presentation and ability to present detail in a natural way that mostly retains the body and tonality of instruments and voices. The Solitaire P with the new pads retains the general signature of the k872, but improves on it in every way with a somewhat warmer, more detailed and more realistic (naturally presented) response. Basically I could have luxuriated in the presentation of the Solitaire P for hours without experiencing any fatigue. It is a compelling signature that provides an excellent alternative to other TOTL headphones.

Anyone on the fence about the Solitaire P should make sure they listen with the new pads. The issue is no longer the price relative to performance, but affordability. Someday I hope to own these. Good job T+A!

.....i see it different

NOMAX

PS......more later about why

 

[DarginMahkum]

At long last!

 

[DarginMahkum]

Despite the photo, I have listened to my HA200 mainly on with my HEDD Tower Mains speakers yesterday, from the 4.4mm HP output. The HEDDs are actually studio monitors, and we have 3 sets of studio monitors at home: One set at my wife's studio desk for her work, one set in our living room (HEDDs) and one set at my desk (I don't have anything to do with music as a profession but I prefer the no BS, just audio approach of pro audio). So we like neutral and detailed sound where you can clearly position the sound sources, crisp and detailed but not fatiguing. HEDDs are exactly that.

I didn't have many fancy DACs until now other than Hugo2 and I used mostly my good old oppo 205 to drive the HEDDs, but I was blown away with what I was hearing with the HA200 on my HEDDs. It was so crystal clear, the imaging was so good, the vocals so well rendered like inside the room...we ended up listening to music until midnight. It very neutral and clean, and it is an amazing pairing with such neutral and revealing speakers. I didn't do any tone adjustments, as none was needed. The HEDDs have closed box subwoofers which are precise, fast and powerful, and it is the first time I am hearing them to catch up with the rest of the music so well and blend. I just can't wait for the session this evening!

What is also nice is that, I was able to drive both my D8000 Pro and HD800 at the same time, with a similar amount of volume.

 

[brams]

Despite the photo, I have listened to my HA200 mainly on with my HEDD Tower Mains speakers yesterday, from the 4.4mm HP output. The HEDDs are actually studio monitors, and we have 3 sets of studio monitors at home: One set at my wife's studio desk for her work, one set in our living room (HEDDs) and one set at my desk (I don't have anything to do with music as a profession but I prefer the no BS, just audio approach of pro audio). So we like neutral and detailed sound where you can clearly position the sound sources, crisp and detailed but not fatiguing. HEDDs are exactly that.

I didn't have many fancy DACs until now other than Hugo2 and I used mostly my good old oppo 205 to drive the HEDDs, but I was blown away with what I was hearing with the HA200 on my HEDDs. It was so crystal clear, the imaging was so good, the vocals so well rendered like inside the room...we ended up listening to music until midnight. It very neutral and clean, and it is an amazing pairing with such neutral and revealing speakers. I didn't do any tone adjustments, as none was needed. The HEDDs have closed box subwoofers which are precise, fast and powerful, and it is the first time I am hearing them to catch up with the rest of the music so well and blend. I just can't wait for the session this evening!

What is also nice is that, I was able to drive both my D8000 Pro and HD800 at the same time, with a similar amount of volume.

At the risk of breifly derailing the thread, I've read about the HEDDs and they appear to be amazing speakers! Despite audiophiles' resistance to the concept, the combination of a neutral dac/preamp and powered speakers has always been one of the better pairings and I use such a setup in one of my systems. In my case the dac/preamp is the DSPeaker X4 which also does room correction so all bases are covered. The X4 also has a great sounding headphone output, but the funny thing is I have never tried it with my higher end cans since the system is used only for 2 channel listening.

Great to hear that the HA200 is neutral. No surprise then that it pairs well with the Solitaire P. I still need to listen to that combination.

Based on my listening session with the new pads, maybe I'll arrange to borrow the Solitaire P to try at home. I'm certain there was some expectation bias on my part before listening, but there was definitely an improvement. It is interesting that a relatively minor tweak could have such an impact, but headphone pads are known for this. I quite like the way the new pads not only retain, but enhance the essence of the Solitaire P.

 

[Nomax]

My last final Words to Solitaire and also the new pads

.....why do I see it differently ... and in spite of the new ear pads?

What is an audiophile tonality for me personally?
What does it have to offer me?
Everything that is on the recording ... and this also requires enough treble energy
Here are some music examples














The best and fastest way to find out is when you compare this TOP CONSTRUCTION which is called Solitaire P with other models of your choice,
side by side, with the same track, the same volume and with the same source - in my case SP1000 / AMP - before trying it with the TT2 or Questyle Master 12 later.

What is the point of having a TOP DAC, when the transducer is not able to offer this performance because a certain part of the frequency response is not present or too subdued?

What is sufficient ... what is not? (The Harman Target gives a hint in this regards)
Can one only expect mediocrity in the premium price segment?(€ 4800!!!)

Everyone can answer all these questions for themselves ... I came to my answer a few months ago after a few minutes only ... and more recently again within a similar amount of thime when I got the Ultra Wide Pads.

NOMAX

PS. "Ultra Wide" is in my opinion only possible with more resolution,Mids and treble energy, which I am still looking for in vain also with the new pads

 

[xxx1313]

I fully agree with Nomax, also regarding the new ear pads from T+A for the Solitaire P. Their tuning is quite similar to the original pads, but it seems that the upper mids (voices) are even more recessed. They also do not improve the sound of theses headphones imo.

 

[brams]

Interesting and welcome impressions @Nomax and @xxx1313. Ultimately we all hear what we hear and it is likely that listening volume plays a large part in these impressions.

Unfortunately I could not compare the old and new pads back to back, but for sure the new pads did not sound as lacking in dynamics to me as the old. The treble is definitely still not at the correct level of something like the Utopia, but it is a bit less subdued than before and does not lack for detail. Similarly the midrange did not sound more recessed and technically should not if the reported frequency response changes are accurate. Certainly I would have preferred them to be a bit more forward, but I don't think that is the presentation T+A are going for. To me the Solitaire Ps with the new pads sounded like a richer, darker and more refined K872. Tonality wise the AKG was more accurate, but the Solitaire P with the new pads had an alternate presentation that was very relaxing and easy to listen to.

I'm not adverse to alternate presentations or headphones that have deviations from established target curves like Harman. In fact, one of my cans is the Final Audio Sonorous X which is about as far tonal wise from my Utopias (or any accurate headphone) as a headphone can be. However, I still appreciate them on some recordings or when I'm in a certain frame of mind. As you both point out though, for the asking price shouldn't the headphone at least be tonally accurate? Ideally the answer is "Yes", but for me the more important measure is how well the headphone moves me emotionally. The HD800 that I owned some time ago failed at this test as did many others that technically were closer to being tonally accurate. What is great about the Utopia is that when powered correctly it retains the accuracy without diminishing the emotional response.

Incidentally the Questyle CMA 12 Master is not available in North America. I tried unsuccessfully to get one to use with my QPM player and SHB2 Super hub and eventually gave up. I am keeping my fingers crossed that a nice one will show up on the used market sometime soon. Hopefully the same applies to the Solitaire P!

P.S. Just saw that BlueBird Music recently picked up distribution of Questyle in North America so perhaps my dream of owning a CMA 12 Master is closer to being realized!

 

[DarginMahkum]

At the risk of breifly derailing the thread, I've read about the HEDDs and they appear to be amazing speakers! Despite audiophiles' resistance to the concept, the combination of a neutral dac/preamp and powered speakers has always been one of the better pairings and I use such a setup in one of my systems. In my case the dac/preamp is the DSPeaker X4 which also does room correction so all bases are covered. The X4 also has a great sounding headphone output, but the funny thing is I have never tried it with my higher end cans since the system is used only for 2 channel listening.

Great to hear that the HA200 is neutral. No surprise then that it pairs well with the Solitaire P. I still need to listen to that combination.

Based on my listening session with the new pads, maybe I'll arrange to borrow the Solitaire P to try at home. I'm certain there was some expectation bias on my part before listening, but there was definitely an improvement. It is interesting that a relatively minor tweak could have such an impact, but headphone pads are known for this. I quite like the way the new pads not only retain, but enhance the essence of the Solitaire P.

In case of such high end professional speakers, I do trust the manufacturer that they will ensure the perfect marriage of the amplifier and speakers and in case of HEDD speakers (which only use analogue electronics without any extra DSP) I believe that they will serve me well for many years without the audiophile tickling "what might be the next better amplifier" .

An interesting incident: When I was there to pick up my HA200, I knew that someone wanted to test the Solitaire and compare it to a Stax (009s?) system, and I asked what the outcome was. Apparently that person found the Solitaire to be too revealing. The dealer actually used the German word "nüchtern", which I didn't know (had to look it up) and apparently means "sober", which I interpreted for revealing (native German speakers can correct me here). So I guess, it is all a relative / personal thing.

Utopia is being used as a benchmark for many new headphones, but it always makes me wonder how can someone endure Utopia for long listening sessions, as the upper mids are for me so annoyingly in-your-face, that just tires me at some point. Actually both Utopia and Stellia have this strange neutral over pushed forward upper mids signature that is for me just tiring. I find the Stellia to be better tuned. I don't think it is the about the amount detail, but rather to push forward the center mostly vocal image to give a more 3D feeling, which for me did not work. I replaced Stellia with Denon D9200 and I am much happier.

I also ordered the HDMI interface for my HA200 and it will be installed hopefully sometime next week, and I will give another try for the Solitaire. In the meanwhile, HA200 became center of everything - even as BT speakers for my TV, and it works from about 4,5 meters of distance without an issues. I use (and develop software under) 95% of the time Linux and I tried today HQPlayer even with DSD1024 under Linux and it is running perfectly fine. That is a big plus for me (there are devies out there that have some issues under Linux). I also noticed that HA200 is now at the top of the recommended hardware list for HQPlayer.

I cannot express how happy I am with this Swiss army knife of a device!

 

[brams]

I don't speak any German at all, but in the context used and especially in comparison to a Stax 009S "sober" likely means "restrained" or lacking in excitement. It is probably in reference to the Solitaire P's laid back mids and subdued treble. These traits would be more evident at lower listening levels and especially noticeable when switching from the Stax.