[LTUCCI1924]

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[jude]

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Stephonovich Any idea of prices for these membership tiers, Jude?.... (-:Stephonovich

[/size]No, not yet, Stephonovich. I'm still trying to project, based on my knowledge of the community, the best price points to effectively reach out to the broadest possible base of members.

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by Stephonovich ....And I assume these will be yearly costs?

[/size]Yes, I think that it will definitely have to be yearly. Most paid memberships to anything are billed yearly -- any more frequently, and it will be more of a hassle for you and me.

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch Everything you said sounds good to me... everything but this. A good part of my enjoyment of Head-Fi is its ad-free nature... no popups, no pop-unders, no Flash, no banners, not even any Google ads (contrary to popular opinion, they *do* slow down a website, and generally uglify it)....

[/size]Of course, I expected some would say this. I'm glad you've enjoyed it ad-free. But I have to do what has to be done to keep the place viable. The reason it's virtually ad-free is because sponsors cover some of the costs, and three guys (and previously just me) cover what isn't; and what isn't is growing. The same types of complaints were posted by some on Audio Asylum when they first put up ads. I'm sure a few left over it. Nevertheless, Audio Asylum thrives, and its members have grown to accept that it's just a necessary part of having the place.

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch ....I hope that if you implement more advertising, it will be on the front page only. If it's on the main pages, I will (A) block it with any and all means at my disposal, and (B) visit head-fi less often....

[/size]Again, as on Audio Asylum, I'm sure you won't be the only member who doesn't dig it. And when it happens, I will be sorry that (A) you (and I'm sure a few others) will block the ads from the advertisers who will be helping to support the place, and (B) won't hang around as much.

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch ....BTW, I've seen the results of so-called "targeted" ads on other websites. In 99% of cases, the target is well off the mark. In the case of music and audio, we'd likely be seeing ads for Brittney Spears and cheap Sony gear. Please don't go down that road, Jude.

[/size]Well, that road will have to be traveled. And, as far as targeting goes, I'll do my best.

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by LTUCCI1924 HI: Sounds great except why take so long to start it?....

[/size]Because I have a job, man.

And so does Neil, who will be the one spending a lot of time with me to make these things happen. Long story short, it's for no other reason than I will need that time to line things up.

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by LTUCCI1924 ....but I don't think any special privileges are necessary. I think all members should have the same privileges as every other member whether they give or not. Lets not fore get the collage students that have very little money at this time while in collage.... ....Why complicate this extra privilege stuff just because we give and then have better privileges just because we might have a little more money than some of the others....

[/size]I've thought these points through a lot over the last several weeks. But the reality is that, even with incentives, I don't expect that a large number of people will elect to become paying members. The incentives will be a deciding factor for some. I know what you're saying about college students. I expect most of them -- reading Head-Fi over spoonfuls of Ramen -- will not be paying members at this time. But there are still college students -- we see them every day -- who seem to have more disposable income than others (and certainly more than I did when I was a college student

). I hope some of these young'uns will go for a tall instead of a venti from time to time, and use some of what they save to give a paid membership a whirl.

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by LTUCCI1924 ....You have allready gave us something back now we can give something back. Please just accept it and let us do something fore head-fi with nothing in return.

[/size]Lou, that you're saying this doesn't surprise me, and I thank you for it. But, again, the reality is that it has to appeal to as broad a stretch of the member base as I can make it -- and that will involve some incentivizing. Even as I envision it, I still anticipate only a very small fraction of the actual registered member base will participate, and I'm comfortable with that; but I have to keep that in mind as I look at the realities of Head-Fi going forward.

 

[Stephonovich]

Well, I dunno about the others, but I'd say I could swing for $20 a year. Seeing's how I'm on a fairly limited income. I'd be willing to go up as high as $50, but I'd prefer not to if possible. Besides, there's 10,000 other members here.

As for ads, yeah, I'd hate it, but I could live with it. Besides, if, as you said, paying members get discounts, I wouldn't mind it as much.

(-:Stephonovich

 

[commando]

Why not try just putting up a "donate" link and seeing how that goes. It's easier for everyone not to have to bother with memberships.

I'm not a great fan of ads, but on this site i'd probably not block them. I might even click one from time to time

 

[ServinginEcuador]

I'm wondering if this isn't an April Fool's joke by Jude?

 

[Stephonovich]

That hadn't occured to me. Could be, except for the fact that he's been discussing the need for ads and income for awhile now. Unless it's all been a huge scam, and he's been deliberately forcing system outages and slowdowns. Hehe. Sounds like something I'd do.

(-:Stephonovich

 

[jude]

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador I'm wondering if this isn't an April Fool's joke by Jude?

[/size]Nope, Doug, no joke. Truth be told, I didn't even realize it was 4/1.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Oh well. I was hoping it was a joke, but it's all good. I figured something like this would eventually come, and feel it can be a good thing. Like many here I have enjoyed this site and gotten a lot from it.

 

[Hajime]

From my point of view it's a good thing.

I find it selfish to say, "I'll block any adds Head-Fi has in the future". The adds are another way of supporting the forums. By blocking them you are saying you'll only support the forums if there's not even the slightest discomfort to yourself. I don't see how adds would bother you that much anyhow, no one is twisting your arm and forcing you to buy anything. Besides, you may find a product you're interested in through the adds, who knows?

 

[blueice]

Hey Jude, why not start a poll asking how much people will be donating and how much people are willing to pay for membership. This way, you can get a feeling of how much you expect to receive and thus manage your spending on upgrades and maintainence cost. And you can break down the membership into tiers 1, 2, 3 based on the result of the poll instead of guessing.

Another nice idea from hydrogenaudio was that those that donate will not have ads showing up if they choose not to. Those that didnt pay will have no choice but to have ads loaded up.

Lastly this idea is debatable. It is to have limit of 10 posts per day for non member. This can limit the amount of useless post since majority should come from newly joined headfiers. And this should also free up some bandwidth and make it cheaper to operate this place.

Just my two cents

 

[Stephonovich]

No, ads are never a good thing. However, they are a neccesary evil. As for blocking them, no. I've never blocked any ads on a page. The exception to this rule, is, of course, pop-ups, and pop-unders. Jude, if you use these, I'm going to band together with other dissatisifed users, who will hunt you down and kill you.

EDIT: blueice, no, bad idea. Sorry, but I hate the idea of restricting posts by non-members. Of course, it's not up to me, but it just seems so WRONG it's not even funny. The poll idea, however, makes perfect sense. As does the members not having to see ads.

(-:Stephonovich

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by jude Of course, I expected some would say this. I'm glad you've enjoyed it ad-free. But I have to do what has to be done to keep the place viable. The reason it's virtually ad-free is because sponsors cover some of the costs, and three guys (and previously just me) cover what isn't; and what isn't is growing. The same types of complaints were posted by some on Audio Asylum when they first put up ads. I'm sure a few left over it. Nevertheless, Audio Asylum thrives, and its members have grown to accept that it's just a necessary part of having the place. Again, as on Audio Asylum, I'm sure you won't be the only member who doesn't dig it. And when it happens, I will be sorry that (A) you (and I'm sure a few others) will block the ads from the advertisers who will be helping to support the place, and (B) won't hang around as much.

Jude, I must confess that I'm clueless as to your motivations. I'd personally be willing to contribute to the board for nothing, as would many other members who have stated as much; instead of accepting contributions from grateful members who have enjoyed free access for so long and gotten so much pleasure from Head-Fi, you've decided to accept "contributions" from advertisers, and to inflict this advertising on members.

I am in the dark as to your thought processes. They appear baffling to me -- please don't take this the wrong way. I just don't understand.

 

[Stephonovich]

Perhaps he thinks the membership alone won't cover costs. I have no idea what he pays yearly for this site; I'd have to see a site log to get an idea. I pay $60 a year (with domain name) for my personal site, which includes 100MB storage, and 5GB per month bandwidth. But I doubt those figures translate well in higher traffic sites.

Anyway, I definitely think Jude should start a poll. 'How much would you be willing to pay yearly to keep Head-Fi ad-free?'

(-:Stephonovich

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Stephonovich Perhaps he thinks the membership alone won't cover costs.

It won't, if it's a relatively high cost yearly sort of thing. I don't really understand that one either -- why not create a very low cost tier that almost everyone could afford (which would surely pay more than most advertisers would, particularly given the relatively narrow subject matter of this board).

Perhaps it comes down to this -- Head-Fi has gotten very popular, and advertisers are looking at it "greedily" due to its popularity and the propensity of many here to spend large sums of money (presumably on "whatever"). So it's advertisers who get the benefits of head-fi's popularity. What do we get? A bunch of offensive ads, and a bit bigger PM box if we pay up.

Somehow this topic reminds me of what's happened to most audio publications (magazines) over the years -- when advertisers get the main attention and the needs/wants of subscribers get short shrift, the results are obvious. At least one would hope they'd be obvious by now.
Quote:

Originally posted by Hajime I find it selfish to say, "I'll block any adds Head-Fi has in the future". The adds are another way of supporting the forums. By blocking them you are saying you'll only support the forums if there's not even the slightest discomfort to yourself.

I would, at this very moment, happily drop $50 into Head-Fi's Paypal account if there were an anonymous "Donate" button on the front page. And I might drop another $50 next month, who knows. But if I have to look at a bunch of ads while browsing the forum, what will drop will be my interest in (and participation on) this board -- count on it. I used to visit HydrogenAudio daily, and ever since they added "Google Ads" to the forums I now visit the site about twice weekly. I hate advertising, I'm sick being bombarded with it from all quarters. It's an insult to my intelligence. Head-Fi has been one of the few remaining refuges up until now.

When advertising becomes the main method of support for a site (or a magazine, or a newspaper, or a television channel), it's been 0wned -- plain and simple. The admin quickly becomes dependent on advertiser income, and then the advertisers call the shots. It's like letting the fox guard the henhouse.

 

[Stephonovich]

Methinks the main issue is that most (I'd venture to say 90%, perhaps) people would not be willing to pay even $1. Maybe they rarely look at Head-Fi, (in which case I could understand their sentiments) maybe they just joined, (also understandable) or maybe they're just money grubbing whores. Ahem.

I say, if you appreciate something, you pay for it. (and if anyone tries hijacking this thread with a morals issue on file sharing, they're dead)

(-:Stephonovich