[crazyfrenchman27]

I honestly wouldn't pay more than $40-$50 for a cable unless my setup was INSANE and I had nothing better to do with my money.

The cables that you can get for $40-$50 are quite good.

If people have the money for $2000 IC, they will spend it even if they don't know that it will make a difference in their system.

 

[morphie]

Well personally I dont think people would just blow 2000 bucks on ICs just for the heck of it...

 

[philodox]

Well, I built my system with some synergistic logic. We will have to see if it worked out the way I planned once I hook the Dynahi up tonight.

1. Silver Cables used throughout for maximum clarity.
2. Detailed headphones with impeccable imaging and just a touch of warmth.
3. Powerfull amp to power the power-hungry headphones.

4. Highly resolving CD player with a pleasing analog-ish sounding line out.
- Still waiting to see how this turned out... it is great as a transport, but I am hoping that the DAC and analog stage in it betters my Flute by quite a bit.
5. Minimal crap in the way of the signal.
- Just a bunch of transistors, no OP Amps in the headphone amp or the line out of the CD player.
6. High mass components with a stand that is basically just a big isolation foot.
7. Good clean power.
- Not doing much here yet, just good power cords on both, a ONEAC power conditioner for the source and a hospital grade wall jack.

I'm hoping I get good synergy right off the bat, but if I find I need to tweak it, hopefully I can do that with the IC's. I'm starting with Headphile XRS silver, but will be getting some Analog Research Silver Raincoat and Analog Research Gold Raincoat [for free] shortly for comparison as well. Quote:

Originally Posted by JWFokker Double blind tests have shown you can't tell the difference between two well constructed cables regardless of how much money you waste on it.

I'm going to call BS on this... First, there is a huge difference between different materials and then you have the connectors themselves. [I went with the XRS partly to try to get rid of this variable]

Other than that I sort of agree with you though. All the shielding and fancy coatings that everyone puts on their cables is just laughable. If you don't have an interference problem what is the point?

There may be slight differences between different cable topologies, but I think pretty much everyone uses twisted pair for short runs anyways.

So I guess I really just call slight BS then... since I mostly agree with you.

 

[morphie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox I'm hoping I get good synergy right off the bat, but if I find I need to tweak it, hopefully I can do that with the IC's. I'm starting with Headphile XRS silver, but will be getting some Analog Research Silver Raincoat and Analog Research Gold Raincoat shortly for comparison as well.I'm going to call BS on this... first, there is a huge difference between different materials. Then you have the connectors themselves... I went with the XRS partly to try to get rid of this variable.

let me know if u decide to sell the XRS ICs

 

[Jeffreybar]

One thing that I think isn't emphasized enough on head-fi about synergy is that it applies to relatively low-end equipment too. Meaning, a $300 DAP paired with the *right* $100-150 portable amp and *right* $100 headphones could sound quite comparable to that same DAP paired with much more expensive and "better" equipment chosen more or less at random. Also frequently not taken into consideration is the context and material of listening...e.g., Shures sound better for Rock, Etys for Classical/Jazz.

All in all, contextual variables of all sorts are hugely important...more important maybe than even whether the piece of gear is any good.

 

[Jahn]

Just fyi folks, i started my IC comment not to say that all ICs were created equal - just that synergy can be had at the right price point for your rig.

here's an extreme example. at the qualia store, we plugged a RS-1 to a RA-1 to the store's 9000ES SACD or whatever it's called. Believe me- under normal circumstances, this combo would be so shrill it would make your ears bleed. But we plugged some nice warm copper Magwires in the mix (25 bucks!) and damn, that rig had synergy! even the qualias sounded nice out of that rig!


it goes to show you - synergy isn't always dependent on price.

 

[Svperstar]

$2000 interconnects are just a penis extention IMO. I was just arguing with some guy on Hardocp that was saying $750 speaker cables make more of a difference than an amp, please.

I would seriously like to see some scientific evidence that an expensive cable is better than a cheaper well made one. Is a $2000 cable better than a $5 cable at Radioshack, probaby, but is it better than a well made cable that would run you $50-100? I doubt it. Once you get high quality copper instead of the "cheapest we can make a connection with" kind of materials it is about diminishing returns.

Electrons will travel the path of least resistance, and if it is so obvious expensive cables are better someone should be able to point at something that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt, that ultra expensive cables ad some kind of benefit.

I purchased a custom breakout cable for my EMU0404, I didn't expect a night an day difference, I just wanted less clutter, better asthetics, and maybe a slightly improved sound due to fact that the cable is shielded high quality copper versus having the stock breakout plugged into radioshack adapters and RCA cables.

How does it sound? I think it might be a little more crisp but I saw a 100x better improvment going from my Pocket Amp to the Gilmore Lite. Only paid $18 for it so it would have been worth it to me even if there was no improvment at all for the other reasons mentioned above.

What I would really like is a mic set up to record the sound coming from headphones/speakers, and a cheap cable used, mid range, and ridiculously expensive cables swapped out with everything else being equal and playing the same song. Then the waves compared for differences.

I know if I jsut dropped 2k on cables and someone asked me if they were better I would probably say yes even if there is no difference at all because I wouldn't want to admit I wasted that much money on what is just a status symbol.

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svperstar I know if I jsut dropped 2k on cables and someone asked me if they were better I would probably say yes even if there is no difference at all because I wouldn't want to admit I wasted that much money on what is just a status symbol.

Exactly

 

[kyrie]

Mm. Well, undoubtedly a lot of those "high-end cables" are nothing but snake oil. But let us remember that we are all free to believe that our $X or $X0 cables sound exactly the same as $X000 ones, but without the experience of actually having heard a $X000 cable and compared it to yours...your belief is only as convincing as those of snake-oil merchants.

 

[morphie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svperstar I know if I jsut dropped 2k on cables and someone asked me if they were better I would probably say yes even if there is no difference at all because I wouldn't want to admit I wasted that much money on what is just a status symbol.

So you're telling me that you'd lie so you wouldn't look stupid, tell me exactly how that makes you credible to my eyes at all... how do I know you don't just feel bad you have 100USD ICs and want 2000USD ones but can't afford them?

If anything, someone who has actually HEARD 2000USD ICs please comment, else just refrain from it, because you simply dont know ^^

 

[Svperstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphie So you're telling me that you'd lie so you wouldn't look stupid, tell me exactly how that makes you credible to my eyes at all... how do I know you don't just feel bad you have 100USD ICs and want 2000USD ones but can't afford them?

Everyone is subject to placebo effect is my point and I am pretty sure anyone that dropped 2k on a cable would hear a huge difference, even if none was there. That is why I said I would perfer to see recordings compared, actual sound data vs subjective comparison.

As for being mad because I can't afford them, I cannot afford the Orpheus, high end Stax, or the Qualias but I would LOVE to hear them and I am pretty sure they sound a lot better than any cheap headphone

Similarly some of the 20k amps on Audiogon I would love to listen to, I bet they sound great. Likewise I can't afford a new Lamborghini but it is a LOT nicer than my current car and you wouldn't hear me say otherwise

However, I am totally unconvinced a 2k dollar cable is a worthwhile investment reguardless of if I can afford it or not. I mentioned I got a custom breakout cable for my EMU, I thought about the headphile one and I can certainly afford it as it is only $70 but I doubt there is a huge difference between it and what I purchased as the cable has good reviews on this site so why pay the extra cash?

 

[brent_strong]

The problem with recording data is that a lot of the difference that cables are supposed to make comes in less tangible areas. Speed, imaging, spaciousness etc.

I'll throw this one in for a kicker. A good friend of mine who has hands-down the best stereo setup I have ever heard changed his speaker cable from Totem Tress to a high end Audioquest cable which came with high-voltage batteries attached for some reason (I don't know all of AQ's propaganda, but anyway, it had batteries).

The bass completely dropped off. Since he works at an audio retailer, he was very tempted to just get his money back for the cables and try something different. It was not until he moved his speakers a full 3" back (more toward the wall) that he realized he had not lost bass but the cables had tightened the bass up so much that caused an extremely noticeable difference and actually caused him to change the spacial arrangement of his speakers.

I think that shows that cables can certainly change the sound of a rig significantly. Believe it or don't, but I can't see you arguing that he was subject to the placebo effect here...

 

[Svperstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brent_strong The problem with recording data is that a lot of the difference that cables are supposed to make comes in less tangible areas. Speed, imaging, spaciousness etc. ... I think that shows that cables can certainly change the sound of a rig significantly. Believe it or don't, but I can't see you arguing that he was subject to the placebo effect here...

Well if it cannot be recorded by any instruments then how is it there? I mean if a super sensitive high end Mic is good enough to record the original song, then it should pic up any sonic changes when it comes out of the headphones or speakers. Someone just posted some SA5000s response graphs, something like that setup would be good, leave everything the same, play the track, swap cable but dont touch anything else, play the track again, compare the raw data.

I mean if it can't be recorded then it isn't there.

As for the cables you mentioned, not claiming to be an expert, maybe those battery cables do make a difference, I don't know, but I am highly sceptical, if I can find a scientific reason for expensive cables being better then great, I would just really like to see some data for why the cables would be better besides "I know a guy"

 

[morphie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Svperstar Everyone is subject to placebo effect is my point and I am pretty sure anyone that dropped 2k on a cable would hear a huge difference, even if none was there. That is why I said I would perfer to see recordings compared, actual sound data vs subjective comparison. As for being mad because I can't afford them, I cannot afford the Orpheus, high end Stax, or the Qualias but I would LOVE to hear them and I am pretty sure they sound a lot better than any cheap headphone Similarly some of the 20k amps on Audiogon I would love to listen to, I bet they sound great. Likewise I can't afford a new Lamborghini but it is a LOT nicer than my current car and you wouldn't hear me say otherwise However, I am totally unconvinced a 2k dollar cable is a worthwhile investment reguardless of if I can afford it or not. I mentioned I got a custom breakout cable for my EMU, I thought about the headphile one and I can certainly afford it as it is only $70 but I doubt there is a huge difference between it and what I purchased as the cable has good reviews on this site so why pay the extra cash?

But you still havent heard anything and in the end you dont know anything. The guy who himself has listened to 2000USD ICs may lie and say he thinks theyre awesome, but I think people have better things to do than buy ICs for 2000USD and lie to themselves about the sound quality. And if you think so, then thanks for your opinion, I read it and udnerstood it, however I still think you're completely wrong having heard nothing and talking about it.

In short, I dont care if someone who only has 200USD ICs tells me 2000USD ICs are the same in terms of sound quality unless hes HEARD them and knows what hes talking about.

 

[mrkangpae]

I don't know about you guys, but I buy nice cables because they're damned sexy. I honestly don't care how they "sound."