[Sycraft]

After many years of using a nice high end surround setup, the time has come I need to go back to headphones for various reasons. So I'm looking for something that is nice and high end, very neutral, but above all comfortable. I have a big head and wear glasses, so I can't have something that squeezes them in to my head hard. Something that sounds amazing but I can only wear for 30 minutes isn't going to help much.

My top contender is the Sennheiser 800S but I was wondering if anyone here had other recommendations I should be looking at? I could spend up to $3k, but of course I won't say no to less expensive.

Also if I do go with the 800S, any suggestions for an amp I should look at? I feel like the one Sennheiser sells is excessively expensive and have trouble believing it is worth it.

 

[Strayngs]

There are tons of options. I am a big fan of Kennerton Odin, Wodan and Thekk if you can find any used in your price range. Do not get a model with the older style headband still used with the Thror...not comfortable. Didn’t really like the Sennhieser 800...never had the 800S. Look at ZMF specifically Auteur....very comfortable. Stay away from Audeze, Rosson and HEDDphone as they are not comfortable...(but sound a lot better than the Sennhieser to my ears). I hear really good things about the nicer Hifiman offerings ....unfortunately I have never heard them but they are supposed to be comfortable and sound great too.

 

[LucasKA]

I am in love with headphones at the moment, each headphone is like a different speaker on your head.
I am happily using Hifiman Ananda, big soundstage, lovely sound, also big and covers my medium size ear with plenty of room to spare, I heard the range up like Arya also sounds great but may need good headphone amp.
also using Meze 99 classic, very fun sound, slightly v shape but can be corrected with silver cable upgrade. The range up Emperyan is about 3k I think.

 

[surfgeorge]

After many years of using a nice high end surround setup, the time has come I need to go back to headphones for various reasons. So I'm looking for something that is nice and high end, very neutral, but above all comfortable. I have a big head and wear glasses, so I can't have something that squeezes them in to my head hard. Something that sounds amazing but I can only wear for 30 minutes isn't going to help much.

My top contender is the Sennheiser 800S but I was wondering if anyone here had other recommendations I should be looking at? I could spend up to $3k, but of course I won't say no to less expensive.

Also if I do go with the 800S, any suggestions for an amp I should look at? I feel like the one Sennheiser sells is excessively expensive and have trouble believing it is worth it.

The way you describe what you are looking for the HD800S sounds like the perfect choice.
I tested it with a Chord Hugo 2 against Hifiman Arya, Meze Empyrean, Focal Utopia, Focal Clear, and others.
The HD800S had the most coherent, detailed, natural sound, with an immense sound stage. If you like orchestra, I cannot imagine any better. It's really like sitting in the concert hall.
Reasons against the HD800S: treble is not holding back detail, so if you are sensitive or listening to medicore or badly recorded music, this can be an issue. Second, the bass is on the lighter side of neutral. Third, the huge soundstage can also be a negative aspect, other headphones sound more intimate.

The Focal Utopia could be of interest as well, with excellent speed, resolution, coherence and punch. More meaty and more sparkly than the HD800S. The soundstage is a lot more intimate, frequency balance bit warmer/bassier. The Focal Clear (original) is a smoother version of the Utopia, but a step down in resolution and speed. The new Clear MG is supposed to be warmer and even smoother, but with better resolution than the Clear original, but those are early impressions from others, I have not heard them.

Those 2, the HD800S and the Focals stood out to me as "neutral"
In either case a good DAC/Amp is essential IMO to bring out the qualities.
Personally I chose the Chord Hugo 2 for SQ, flexibility, size and portability.

 

[thecrow]

High end neutral - demo the hifiman he1000se

maybe brighter side of neutral. tight punchy bass. Precision soundstaging/placement.
great detail.

** very easy to drive so can start straight out of phone (with a great sound) and build system around the headphone as you go

Can find them around 2.5K newish secondhand at times
i think new, rrp is 3.5k but i‘m sure you could get that down in price


the utopias are a punchy, detailed and precise sound too.
a bit bigger in sound relative to he1000se.
Can be a little too aggressive with some (brighter) gear/amps


hd800 is also a solid choice but works best with tubes for me

(i happily own all three of these)

demo where you can

all the best

 

[Sycraft]

Those 2, the HD800S and the Focals stood out to me as "neutral"
In either case a good DAC/Amp is essential IMO to bring out the qualities.
Personally I chose the Chord Hugo 2 for SQ, flexibility, size and portability.

My top candidate for DAC currently is the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. It measures exceptionally well in all respects, both DAC and headphone component, I am a huge fan of RME and their engineering, it has ASIO drivers which I would make use of, and the DSP features like crossfeed and PEQ would potentially be nice.

 

[Monsterzero]

I'd suggest either the ZMF Verite open or perhaps the ZMF Auteur. The Verite is similar to the HD800, but with actual texture and bass.
Auteur is more intimate sounding and has more energy in the upper mids vs. the Verite.

Both are excellent headphones.

 

[Deolum]

The way you describe what you are looking for the HD800S sounds like the perfect choice.
I tested it with a Chord Hugo 2 against Hifiman Arya, Meze Empyrean, Focal Utopia, Focal Clear, and others.
The HD800S had the most coherent, detailed, natural sound, with an immense sound stage. If you like orchestra, I cannot imagine any better. It's really like sitting in the concert hall.
Reasons against the HD800S: treble is not holding back detail, so if you are sensitive or listening to medicore or badly recorded music, this can be an issue. Second, the bass is on the lighter side of neutral. Third, the huge soundstage can also be a negative aspect, other headphones sound more intimate.

The Focal Utopia could be of interest as well, with excellent speed, resolution, coherence and punch. More meaty and more sparkly than the HD800S. The soundstage is a lot more intimate, frequency balance bit warmer/bassier. The Focal Clear (original) is a smoother version of the Utopia, but a step down in resolution and speed. The new Clear MG is supposed to be warmer and even smoother, but with better resolution than the Clear original, but those are early impressions from others, I have not heard them.

Those 2, the HD800S and the Focals stood out to me as "neutral"
In either case a good DAC/Amp is essential IMO to bring out the qualities.
Personally I chose the Chord Hugo 2 for SQ, flexibility, size and portability.

HD800 and HD800S have the most incoherent and one of the most unnatural sounds due to their oversized soundstage for me. Crazy how different subjective impressions can be.

Heard both stock without eq though.

 

[surfgeorge]

My top candidate for DAC currently is the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. It measures exceptionally well in all respects, both DAC and headphone component, I am a huge fan of RME and their engineering, it has ASIO drivers which I would make use of, and the DSP features like crossfeed and PEQ would potentially be nice.

The RME Adi-2 has a really good reputation, although from what I remember it was called leaning analytical.
As @Deolum said the HD800S sounds cold and analytical to some, clean and natural to others.
Better if you can give the combination a good long listen to know if it’s right for you!
(Like me - I chose the Focal Clear but feel it’s almost too smooth and warm, somehow keep thinking of the HD800S. But then I don’t think the HD800S would be the right one always...)

 

[Sycraft]

Well I decided to go for the RME/Sennheiser combo I was thinking of. The RME is amazing, extremely well designed. I think they set a standard here that DACs should be compared to in terms of features. Given that its measurements are more or less at the limits of human hearing, I think it is a winner.

The HD 800s are super comfortable at least so far, I haven't had a chance to wear them for hours on end. They get high marks on soundstage and are probably the most speaker like headphone I've yet used, particularly when given some crossfeed. Sound quality is good, I don't feel like I'm trading anything off from my speakers. I haven't done any detailed A/B listening but they aren't a step down or anything (which you would hope not).

My criticisms of them are two and minor. One is that the bass just doesn't have the slam I'm used to. This I knew going in to headphones. You don't get the same kind of impact as you do with tower speakers, and a massive SVS sub that goes down to like 13Hz in room particularly from open back phones. You could argue that the bass on my speakers is probably more pronounced than it should be. The other is that the highs are perhaps a bit harsh on some music.

A quick adjustment of the treble and bass dials on the RME actually does a pretty good job improving that. Maybe I'll have to see if anyone has a good recommendation for PEQ settings for it to mimic a speaker's room curve and see how that goes. Also I may just need to give it some time, see if I end up liking the new sound after getting used to it.

All in all the RME is a keeper for sure and I think the Sennheisers are keepers too. Not sure I want to spend the restocking fees trying lots of different phones .

 

[silent-circuit]

No, what you're hearing is classic HD800S; weak/recessed bass, somewhat sharp treble, very wide sound stage.

Not saying you are wrong -- you're never going to get speaker / sub bass from headphones. Glad EQ seems to be working for you though.

 

[Sycraft]

I'll have to play with them more and see. I'm also playing with them with headphone virtualization software. I bought Waves Nx way back when and tried it with the Denon AH-D2000 headphones I had (still have actually) but it didn't give great results. The HD 800s give much better results so perhaps their response is closer to what Nx expects. I'll have to break out the head tracker and see how that goes. DTS X Headphone was quite good, but doesn't seem to work with games. It worked pretty well with DVD-A music, though still it doesn't hit like the sub does, of course.

I'll keep playing with these and see what I think, maybe see if someone has some good PEQ recommendations. Otherwise I'm not sure what I'd look at. Maybe the Focal phones, they do look good and pretty comfortable. I suppose I could look at Denon's new lineup, no idea how they are these days. Also not sure if I want to do sealed phones or not. I mean it can get more bass, but there are tradeoffs for sealing them.

The Waves Nx VST plugin actually has a correction setting for the 800s along with a select few others, but the system level program that works with games has no configuration for what kind of phones you have. DTS X Headphone has a bunch of headphone models, but it doesn't do high end stuff, the 650s are the highest it goes, and likewise doesn't feature most of the Focal lineup.

 

[Sycraft]

I think I will keep the HD 800S, after playing with the ADI-2 more and looking up some EQ information I find I can get them to a tonal balance I'm very happy with.

That said, I am considering a second pair of headphones. Anything in particular I should look at as something of a counterpoint to the HD 800S with some slamming bass?

 

[silent-circuit]

LCD-2 classic or LCD-X. Maybe Denon AH-D7200 / 9200.