[Longbowman]

Hi folks,

I've done a lot of reading around on this and other forums and I understand this is a relatively redundant question in its most basic form. That said, I have a hard time finding answers to more specific questions.

I'm looking for phones to accommodate my current, somewhat temporary studio setup. I have HS80Ms and no room treatment -- a modest setup even with treatment, but I'm looking for a mixing tool to help circumvent the lack of treatment, as well as help with the inability to monitor at decent volumes due to the location being shared.

So: phones primarily for mixing and monitoring. I'd like them to be nice to listen on as well, but that's secondary to being accurate and being a good tool for making mix decisions (that will be checked on monitors eventually). I'll probably use them for writing/guitar tracking/etc later at night, though not through mics, so sound bleed isn't a big deal. I'm curious to know how bad it is, in and out though (i.e. someone talking in a room vs you can hear it through walls and vice-versa).
I can't audition them due to a lack of availability. I've considered M50xs (and tried them), Q701/K702's, etc. HD600's are currently on sale here for $350, and DT880/600 for $250.

Important factors:
-Clarity/"realistic soundstage"/transparency -- mixing basics
-Non-fatiguing (they won't be 20 minute reference phones)
-Comfortable (headband bumps don't do well with me -- I tried Focal Spirit Pros and the headband was a dealbreaker)

Secondary:
-At least somewhat pleasurable to listen to music with.

I primarily write/mix orchestral/sound-design type scores, as well as progressive metal (i.e. Opeth, Wintersun, etc). Stuff that tends to be relatively dense with a large amount of tracks.

So TL;DR -- cans for mixing and monitoring first, pleasurable listening second. Preferably not overly fatiguing.

Cans will be going through my Scarlett 18i8 for the time being unless I'm compelled to get something else.

All that said -- any recommendations as to which would be a better match? Is the HD600 worth the extra $100? Does Sonarworks negate any significant difference between these?

 

[cossix]

Where the hell do you live that the HD600 is $350?? The words "HD600" "on sale" and "350 Dollars" should never be used in the same sentence. They are like 275 on Amazon from what I remember, but 350USD is even more expensive than the 650 on Amazon and definitely not worth it IMO when you can buy them all over the internet for 280 at most.

With that said, I've heard so many good things about the 600 and I think would be perfect headphones for you, but don't let somebody charge you that much for them, goodness

 

[Longbowman]

Haha sorry. I'm in Canada.

 

[cossix]

Haha sorry. I'm in Canada.

I apologize to your wallet then xD You can't find the 600 secondhand for cheaper? I'd say go with the 880 but definitely get some other opinions, as I haven't heard any of the Beyers.

 

[Longbowman]

I apologize to your wallet then xD You can't find the 600 secondhand for cheaper? I'd say go with the 880 but definitely get some other opinions, as I haven't heard any of the Beyers.

Ah with the exchange it's close to the same. They're regularly around $450 on Amazon Canada. At $350CAD is the only reason I'm considering them. DT880s are usually $300ish but on for $250CAD.

I was originally going with the DT880s due to the price difference but reports about lack of instrument separation, the overall praise for the 600s, reports that 880s were more fatiguing, and the sale price of the 600s are making me reconsider (though still a $100 difference).

If Sonarworks improves the DT880s beyond the 600s and the clear highs are more conducive to mixing then I'd certainly consider them.

 

[Me x3]

What's the price of the AKG K712 there?

 

[PurpleAngel]

Sony MDR-V6 or MDR-7506 headphones, both sell for around $100, they would be good headphones for audio creation, mixing, production, etc.
Save up and buy second headphone for music enjoyment.

I'm not the expert, but it seems you need to use neutral (boring) headphones for audio production.

 

[Longbowman]

What's the price of the AKG K712 there?

$476. Yikes.

Sony MDR-V6 or MDR-7506 headphones, both sell for around $100, they would be good headphones for audio creation, mixing, production, etc.
Save up and buy second headphone for music enjoyment.

I'm not the expert, but it seems you need to use neutral (boring) headphones for audio production.

Eh I have an audio engineering friend (Jeff Loomis' solo record producer) who partly used 7506's for mixing his personal band's first record, but he doesn't recommend them now. I wouldn't rule them out, and would be happy to try them (especially if Sonarworks makes them usable for mixing), but I'm not sure I can compare other models to them here. I was considering the Focal Spirit Pros on his recommendation but the headband is a no-go for me. I figure I'd rather have something that I"ll enjoy and will be useful over time than a cheaper/temporary option. If I was looking in this direction I'd rather go M50x.

 

[Me x3]

$476. Yikes.

Well, DT880 and HD600 are very different headphones with different strenghts/character.

HD600 is cohessive, with small but well presented soundstage. Slightly mid-bassy and slightly softened in the treble region. The mids are very natural sounding, with forward and detailed vocals. Natural sounding but cohessive. Instrument separation is not bad but it's not something the hedphone tries hard to achieve. HD600 gives the sound more as a whole thing than separate things playing around. Many people like them because they "sound like speakers". While this is extremely vague, the truth is they are slightly warm and soft and thus they are quite easy on the ears and will do ok with a relatively wide range of recordings.

DT880 is a very different headphone, more along the lines of the HD800. The bass is flatter, it's a cooler sounding headphone overall, with slightly distant upper midrange and very sparkly treble that extends forever. It's much more critical with the quality of the recordings you play. With the wrong material it can sound anemic and overly bright. The soundstage is slightly bigger relative to the HD600 with more air, but even then it's not extremely big or much more layered. You get more air and the sound is a tad more distant.

I've owned DT880 (250) and HD600 side by side, and at that time I've preferred the DT880 for its airier and more energetic sound that's more true to life with quality recordings (to my ears and preferred listening levels: not too loud). I think DT880 is a better tool overall. Also less clamping force which by the way is pretty high on the HD600.

AKG K702 will give you the best instrument sepration, soundstage size and layering. The bass is clean and extended, the treble is detailed and not extremely bright, but it's not as extended as DT880's. This headphone is very capable but have a very ethereal sound, pretty much the opposite of the cohessive HD600.

HD600: natural sound with a wide range of recordings, not an analytic tool.
DT880: uncoloured response through the bass and mids, extremely fast and extended sparkly treble
K702: instrument separation and layering, bass clarity.

HD600 is slightly mid-bassy relative to DT880 and K702
Depending on the recording the more demanding DT880 and K702 can sound slightly bass light.

K712 is very good, I've sold my HD600/DT880/K702 but kept the K712.
It's not perfect, but it's extremely good for the price. Many times I've preferred it over my HD800.

 

[Grimbles]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx ships worldwide (so presumably that includes canada?! They deffos ship to the uk).

 

[Longbowman]

Well, DT880 and HD600 are very different headphones with different strenghts/character.

HD600 is cohessive, with small but well presented soundstage. Slightly mid-bassy and slightly softened in the treble region. The mids are very natural sounding, with forward and detailed vocals. Natural sounding but cohessive. Instrument separation is not bad but it's not something the hedphone tries hard to achieve. HD600 gives the sound more as a whole thing than separate things playing around. Many people like them because they "sound like speakers". While this is extremely vague, the truth is they are slightly warm and soft and thus they are quite easy on the ears and will do ok with a relatively wide range of recordings.

I'm curious what "natural" means to people -- while this is a plus in many regards, I can also see it being a hindrance, i.e. live guitars vs trying to get them to sound like they do on a record (i.e. tighter and more focused). I have a hard time knowing if separated is really a good thing while mixing on cans -- does one want separation for clarity's sake, or does one want instruments to sound sufficiently separate with a cohesive sounding phone in order for it to translate into speakers properly? Hmm...

DT880 is a very different headphone, more along the lines of the HD800. The bass is flatter, it's a cooler sounding headphone overall, with slightly distant upper midrange and very sparkly treble that extends forever. It's much more critical with the quality of the recordings you play. With the wrong material it can sound anemic and overly bright. The soundstage is slightly bigger relative to the HD600 with more air, but even then it's not extremely big or much more layered. You get more air and the sound is a tad more distant.

I've owned DT880 (250) and HD600 side by side, and at that time I've preferred the DT880 for its airier and more energetic sound that's more true to life with quality recordings (to my ears and preferred listening levels: not too loud). I think DT880 is a better tool overall. Also less clamping force which by the way is pretty high on the HD600.

I also don't listen too loudly. I've seen these two compared but with the complaint that the DT880 sounds far less "transparent" and is less useful as a mixing tool (than the HD800). Would you consider it a more useful mixing tool specifically?

AKG K702 will give you the best instrument sepration, soundstage size and layering. The bass is clean and extended, the treble is detailed and not extremely bright, but it's not as extended as DT880's. This headphone is very capable but have a very ethereal sound, pretty much the opposite of the cohessive HD600.

I've heard that. The AKG's were what I was planning on at first, but bumpy headbands are 100% a no-go for me (I've read a number of complaints about this). Comfort is important, and I do wear glasses. I'm also not sure an artificially wide soundstage is a good idea for mix translation. Sounds like a great set though, I've read good reviews from a number of composers.

HD600: natural sound with a wide range of recordings, not an analytic tool.
DT880: uncoloured response through the bass and mids, extremely fast and extended sparkly treble
K702: instrument separation and layering, bass clarity.

This is interesting as I've regularly seen praise for it and the 650 as a formidable reference/mixing tool. I'm curious to know now what's preferable while referencing, cohesive sound that translates or cold analysis?

HD600 is slightly mid-bassy relative to DT880 and K702
Depending on the recording the more demanding DT880 and K702 can sound slightly bass light.

K712 is very good, I've sold my HD600/DT880/K702 but kept the K712.
It's not perfect, but it's extremely good for the price. Many times I've preferred it over my HD800.

K712 looks good but way out of pricerange. You haven't tried any of these with the Sonarworks plugin, have you? Thank you for the reviews/input by the way, that's helpful. Things to think about.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx ships worldwide (so presumably that includes canada?! They deffos ship to the uk).

I can't see prices unless I'm a member apparently. Are they cheaper than $270 USD?

For kicks, here are examples of the kind of things I'm interested in working with (a few seconds of each should do it -- sorry for the poor sources, the 16/44.1 or 24bit versions of these are obviously different):





Etc

 

[Grimbles]

Are they cheaper than $270 USD?

US$199

 

[Longbowman]

US$199

Oh man that's really cheap! Are they located in the US? Unfortunately trade relations between Canada and the US are pretty bad right now so the border is taxing and charging import on anything coming across it. Believe it or not the $100 this saves me might get lost in shipping/taxes/import. I'll have to see what estimates are like though anyway, thanks for the reference!

 

[Grimbles]

Ah man that sucks. Yes I think they are us based. They also have the akg k7xx (massdrop's collaboration on the k712) at $199.

 

[Longbowman]

US$199

Edit: This has me really interested. So they're still Sennheiser produced 650s? Same build quality, drivers, etc? How do the 650s compare to the 600s for mixing?

I ran a calculator and it looks like they're come out to $300ish with shipping.

Edit 2: Oh, only shipping March 28th. I don't think $50 is worth 3 months of no headphones for me.