[chanthing]

A quickie:

Against the advice of board members, I bought a pair of these from Radio Shack. My goal was something at least as good as my cx300's with less microphonics and less troublesome cord management.

While the Super.fi 3 managed the latter two admirably, the sound left a lot to be desired. To get a reasonable level of bass, I had to use the ipod nano's "Bass Boost" equalizer setting. Then, with electronic dance music, the phones would distort terribly on kick drums and low bass notes.

I am not a bass fanatic in the sense of wanting that ghetto car stereo thumpity thump. But I do own one of the first home subwoofers (MKS Volkswoofer) and I want bass represented somewhat accurately.

The Super.fi 3's are nicely accurate and transparent above 100Hz or so, but they really are some of the most boring headphones I've ever heard. I hate to use that term, but when using isolating headphones with my ipod, I want that "soundtrack" effect, where the magic of music brings a surreal sheen to my surroundings and I just didn't get it with these headphones.

I was truly surprised at how disappointing they were. I wanted to like them; they seem to be well constructed and the accessories included were very nice.

So I will return these to RS. I have ordered a pair of V-moda Vibes and will report back after they arrive and I've had some time to listen to them.

For reference, my primary audio system uses the aforementioned Volkswoofer with the MKS Satellites, my office stereo plays through Tannoy PBM 6.5 nearfield monitors, I have a pair of KRK V4's in my kitchen, and a pair of Visonik Davids in my bedroom.

-- Chanthing

 

[sgrossklass]

And you are absolutely perfectly sure that you got a good seal? The measurements at Headroom do indicate a bass dropoff, but reportedly the super.fi 3s have improved over the initial samples.

BTW, I am not sure whether the nano is also affected by this EQ distortion issue that plagues a lot of the older Apple gear... I really have to crank up the bass for the ER-6 on my iAudio G3 (like >+10 dB) and have yet to notice any distortion. Honestly I think those balanced armature drivers don't distort so quickly.

Maybe you're a candidate for some UM1s then? (Or save up for some dual driver gear, e.g. UM2, super.fi 5 or E4c.)

 

[Jokieman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrossklass BTW, I am not sure whether the nano is also affected by this EQ distortion issue that plagues a lot of the older Apple gear... I really have to crank up the bass for the ER-6 on my iAudio G3 (like >+10 dB) and have yet to notice any distortion. Honestly I think those balanced armature drivers don't distort so quickly.

Unfortunately Apple's EQ is mostly worthless (at least on my Nano 2g). It distorts quite a bit. I seriously don't believe Apple has really given it's firmware a good overhaul/improvement since it's first inception. I think it's mostly just been bug fixes.

 

[AdamP]

What you need to do is normalize the MP3s to 88db to give the EQ 12dB of headroom... then you will be set.

 

[jant71]

I find them to need proper amping to shine. Straight out of a portable they need EQ big time. More than is possible with the Ipod stock EQ w/o distortion. Even warm sources like my Iriver and Sony minidisc need bass added to reach the "just enough" level. If you can set the old Sony digital megabass to 2(highest) there is a serious lack of punch.

As I am waiting for a supermicro IV, I hooked them through the line out of my SD-SG11(which is quite neutral) just to get an idea of their sound with more power fed to them. I could not take them off. Creamy mids, nice bass impact, no fatigue. Smooth and way less harsh then through my portables. Till the amp arrives I can get some of that sound (even with the weedy minidisc output) by hooking the attenuator to them and turning the volume up on the portable.

Even at 13ohms and 115 db/mw sensitivity they are power hungry. I read on headroom that they have bass when amped but they are almost a different phone.

 

[derek8555]

Distortion is caused by iPod's EQ, not SF3's. If you call a subwoofer's bass acurate, then I don't think any IEM can satisfy you. But do look into the dual-driver IEMs: Shure E5, Westone UM2, Super.fi 5 Pro.

BTW sgrossklass, E4s are single-driver, not dual.

 

[valkolton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jokieman Unfortunately Apple's EQ is mostly worthless (at least on my Nano 2g). It distorts quite a bit. I seriously don't believe Apple has really given it's firmware a good overhaul/improvement since it's first inception. I think it's mostly just been bug fixes.

Jokieman - I agree, the Bass Boost option distorts ALL headphones badly on my 2G Nano's. We tried many models Etymotic Er6i, E500, Vibe, and about 8 other headphones to confirm it was indeed the iPod and not our headphones. I do feel horrible that many novice users will try bass boost, and some songs distort very badly on any headphone - but it seems to be more noticable on more detailed sounding headphones as it amplifies the effect. As AdamP said though, it seems to have a lot to do with the MP3 volume normalization, I'll try with some iTunes purchased songs out of curiousity to see how they are leveled. I really wish the iPod had a manual EQ, ce la vie hopefully firmware. Strange I didn't notice it as much on 1G, I'll try it out to see if it changed between 1G and 2G.

Tomorrow I get a Zune and I'll report back how the EQ works.

-val

 

[Jokieman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamP What you need to do is normalize the MP3s to 88db to give the EQ 12dB of headroom... then you will be set.

I've done that and I still get distortion with the EQ on quite a few songs. the only thing I haven't done is to use something like the Itunes equalizer that I can manually set to see if the preset that i create transfers over when the song tagged with it goes. I haven't done it because I've been too lazy to bother (and really because I doubt apple would have thought to do that because it would be oh so much better. heh)

Although I will say I did not bring my songs all the way down to 89db. I set them up for 92db using MP3 gain because any lower and I wasn't reaching the volume level that I wanted.

I've honestly started looking at the IAUDIO U3 just recently, and might just end up selling the ipod and getting the U3. From what I hear the amp is more powerful, it plays a bit louder than the ipod and the EQ is way better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkolton Jokieman - I agree, the Bass Boost option distorts ALL headphones badly on my 2G Nano's. We tried many models Etymotic Er6i, E500, Vibe, and about 8 other headphones to confirm it was indeed the iPod and not our headphones. I do feel horrible that many novice users will try bass boost, and some songs distort very badly on any headphone - but it seems to be more noticable on more detailed sounding headphones as it amplifies the effect.

This has been my experience as well.

 

[chanthing]

The responses here motivated me to give the Super.fi 3's another try.

Mea culpa on the distortion. It is indeed the nano's BassBoost EQ. How lame. But that is the situation I'm stuck with. The nano is the intended source for these earphones; while amplification may improve the Super.fi 3's, this is my lightweight travel rig. The nano was explicitly purchased to be used in lieu of my "full-sized" ipod so I could have something easy to travel and exercise with. Carrying around an amplifier defeats the purpose.

Anyway, I listened to the 3's some more with an amplified source and am still underwhelmed. They really have minimal bass (YES, YES, I had a good seal. My seal is so good it balances a ball on it's nose, okay?) and I suppose most of the music I listen to requires reasonable bass response in order to sound full.

Examples: ELP's Lucky Man. Leaving aside the synth solo at the end, Carl Palmer's kick drum is almost nonexistent; everything sounds "hollow".

Jimi Hendrix's "Come On, Pt. 1" normally throws me into uncontrollable air guitar. Not with the 3's. Even more surprising than the lack of low end was that I could barely notice the guitar amp hum during the acapella vocal segments. Some people might find that an improvement, but to me that noise is an integral part of the mood of the song.

Finally, I tried John Fahey's solo acoustic guitar material. Even this just sounded dead. I know it's a subjective reaction, but I also know I'm not the only one to have that reaction.

So back they go.

Someone responded with "If you call a subwoofer's bass acurate [sic], then I don't think any IEM can satisfy you." First of all, you realize that there is not just one brand of subwoofer, right? Your statement is tantamount to saying "If you call a system with a separate pre-amp accurate...." Some subwoofers are accurate, some aren't. They are simply one approach to full range sound. The fact that they have come to be identified with a particularly obnoxious car audio element has nothing to do with the sound they are capable of in a well set up home audio system.

Secondly, I don't know if snobs consider them to be an IEM, but the Sennheiser CX300's have more than enough bass range to be satisfying. They are a tad boomy, which is a drag, but in my listening test this morning I was surprised to find that they did a respectable job on a couple of the very challenging segments of the first ELP album: the "grinding to a halt" of Knife Edge, the conclusion of the drum solo in Tank.

From the early reports, I think the Vibe will be a winner, at approximately half the price of the Super.fi 5 Pro's. If they are less boomy and smeared than the CX300's and have less of a problem with microphonics, then I will be happy.

Cheers,

-- Thing

 

[jant71]

Yeah, even amped they are still mid-forward with an upside down V curve. Sounds like thats not your thing. The Vibe seems a good choice. Hope they are the sound your looking for.

Of course, post you impressions once you've spent sometime with them.

 

[Ace o' Spades]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chanthing Anyway, I listened to the 3's some more with an amplified source and am still underwhelmed. They really have minimal bass (YES, YES, I had a good seal. My seal is so good it balances a ball on it's nose, okay?) and I suppose most of the music I listen to requires reasonable bass response in order to sound full. Examples: ELP's Lucky Man. Leaving aside the synth solo at the end, Carl Palmer's kick drum is almost nonexistent; everything sounds "hollow". Jimi Hendrix's "Come On, Pt. 1" normally throws me into uncontrollable air guitar. Not with the 3's. Even more surprising than the lack of low end was that I could barely notice the guitar amp hum during the acapella vocal segments. Some people might find that an improvement, but to me that noise is an integral part of the mood of the song. Finally, I tried John Fahey's solo acoustic guitar material. Even this just sounded dead. I know it's a subjective reaction, but I also know I'm not the only one to have that reaction.

I agree completely. It isn't just you.

At first I loved mine, but I was still very new to the world of IEMs. Even my iM716 has double the bass the UE3s do and HD mode.

Amped there is a bit of an improvement, admittedly, but my iM716s improve even more amped and I have no reason to wear the Super.fis anymore.

 

[humanafterall]

Quote:

Originally Posted by valkolton Jokieman - I agree, the Bass Boost option distorts ALL headphones badly on my 2G Nano's. We tried many models Etymotic Er6i, E500, Vibe, and about 8 other headphones to confirm it was indeed the iPod and not our headphones. I do feel horrible that many novice users will try bass boost, and some songs distort very badly on any headphone - but it seems to be more noticable on more detailed sounding headphones as it amplifies the effect. As AdamP said though, it seems to have a lot to do with the MP3 volume normalization, I'll try with some iTunes purchased songs out of curiousity to see how they are leveled. I really wish the iPod had a manual EQ, ce la vie hopefully firmware. Strange I didn't notice it as much on 1G, I'll try it out to see if it changed between 1G and 2G. Tomorrow I get a Zune and I'll report back how the EQ works. -val

The iPod eq unfortunately does not attenuate the equal amount that it increases a particular frequency. In order to resolve the distortion on mp3s, you can normalize them using a free utility called MP3Gain (google it). It will normalize the mp3 without modifying them permanently, there is no transcoding. It modifies the dB level which is contained in the mp3 header or something like that. Normalize them to around 89dB which will allow enough headroom for the iPod eq to boost bass frequencies, and voila, no more distortion.