Sundara with a high output impedance amp?
Apr 5, 2021 at 6:02 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 28
Lamby90

Lamby90

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Technical question.
What happens if I listen with an amp with high output impedance the Sundaras? I'll explain.
My setup for the lps/cds/tapes listening ends with a Yamaha A-S201 amp, which I didn't find the exact output impedance but I read is pretty high (instead for example my desktop setup with the L30 which is <1 ohm).
What happens technically in this case with high output impedance amp with planar (with low impedance)?
EDIT
Just found it, should be 8 Ohm the output impedance of the amp
 
Last edited:
Apr 14, 2021 at 1:38 AM Post #2 of 28
Lamby90 said:
Technical question.
What happens if I listen with an amp with high output impedance the Sundaras? I'll explain.
My setup for the lps/cds/tapes listening ends with a Yamaha A-S201 amp, which I didn't find the exact output impedance but I read is pretty high (instead for example my desktop setup with the L30 which is <1 ohm).
What happens technically in this case with high output impedance amp with planar (with low impedance)?
EDIT
Just found it, should be 8 Ohm the output impedance of the amp
Click to expand...
8-Ohms is a number that makes more sense for measuring speaker amplifier stuff, not a headphone jack's output impedance.
I'm sure the headphone jack output impedance is way way higher then 8-Ohms, could be 10 or 20 times (or more) higher then 8-Ohms.
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 4:54 AM Post #3 of 28
It's likely to be many times higher than the output impedance of the speaker amp if the headphone output of your Yamaha uses a simple resistor rather than a discrete headphone stage.

High impedance output sources generally tend to distort low sensitivity planars, and will also affect frequency response. Having said that, without listening and comparing it's hard to say exactly what will happen. If you like it, keep going.
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 5:27 AM Post #4 of 28
PurpleAngel said:
8-Ohms is a number that makes more sense for measuring speaker amplifier stuff, not a headphone jack's output impedance.
I'm sure the headphone jack output impedance is way way higher then 8-Ohms, could be 10 or 20 times (or more) higher then 8-Ohms.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you're right I guess. Because it's not a headphone amp, it's a speaker amp for turntables, cd player, ecc. which has a headphone output. I couldn't find the exact output impedance for the headphone output

Mightygrey said:
It's likely to be many times higher than the output impedance of the speaker amp if the headphone output of your Yamaha uses a simple resistor rather than a discrete headphone stage.

High impedance output sources generally tend to distort low sensitivity planars, and will also affect frequency response. Having said that, without listening and comparing it's hard to say exactly what will happen. If you like it, keep going.
Click to expand...
That's the reason why I asked this question and a doubt crossed my mind.
Because the Sundara on that amp don't sound as on the Topping L30 of my desktop setup. On L30 they sound absolutely phenomanal, but on the Yamaha not so much, they sound good but not as good as the L30, I can't say in which way. They don't go deep as on L30 and they're not so open, in space and I guess maybe frequency.
I've tried my dt 990 pro 250 ohms and they sound good on Yamaha, almost better than the L30, is that because of the high headphone impedance? Because with the L30 the Sundara sound way better than the Dt 990 pro but on Yamaha is the other way round.
I guess I'll should use the Sundara for the desktop setup with flac and dsd and the dt 990 pro for vinyls/cd/tapes.

Thanks both for the answers btw, very appreciated
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 6:05 AM Post #5 of 28
Apr 14, 2021 at 6:11 AM Post #6 of 28
Apr 14, 2021 at 9:54 PM Post #7 of 28
Lamby90 said:
Yeah, you're right I guess. Because it's not a headphone amp, it's a speaker amp for turntables, cd player, ecc. which has a headphone output. I couldn't find the exact output impedance for the headphone output
That's the reason why I asked this question and a doubt crossed my mind.
Because the Sundara on that amp don't sound as on the Topping L30 of my desktop setup. On L30 they sound absolutely phenomenal, but on the Yamaha not so much, they sound good but not as good as the L30, I can't say in which way. They don't go deep as on L30 and they're not so open, in space and I guess maybe frequency.
I've tried my dt 990 pro 250 ohms and they sound good on Yamaha, almost better than the L30, is that because of the high headphone impedance? Because with the L30 the Sundara sound way better than the Dt 990 pro but on Yamaha is the other way round.
I guess I'll should use the Sundara for the desktop setup with flac and dsd and the dt 990 pro for vinyls/cd/tapes.
Click to expand...
The Yamaha's headphone jack would likely have a high impedance (Ohm), but there should be plenty of power (voltage) to drive headphones.
 
Apr 16, 2021 at 5:57 PM Post #9 of 28
Quartzwald said:
The Sundara is a planar so it really doesn't follow the "8x rule". Planar headphones have a flat impedance curve so they aren't affected by impedance mismatch.
Click to expand...
Yes planars have a relatively flat impedance curve but trust me hook up some planars to a high output impedance amp like the Bottlehead Crack at around 120 ohms and they are a flabby ass mess.
 
Apr 16, 2021 at 6:15 PM Post #10 of 28
buke9 said:
Yes planars have a relatively flat impedance curve but trust me hook up some planars to a high output impedance amp like the Bottlehead Crack at around 120 ohms and they are a flabby ass mess.
Click to expand...
"Flabby Ass", have you been checking out my booty again?
 
Apr 16, 2021 at 6:30 PM Post #11 of 28
Apr 16, 2021 at 6:36 PM Post #12 of 28
Quartzwald said:
The Sundara is a planar so it really doesn't follow the "8x rule". Planar headphones have a flat impedance curve so they aren't affected by impedance mismatch.
Click to expand...

Ah, never heard that! That's interesting, I might run some more test then!
 
Apr 16, 2021 at 7:58 PM Post #14 of 28
:deadhorse:
 
Apr 16, 2021 at 8:29 PM Post #15 of 28
Lamby90 said:
Ah, never heard that! That's interesting, I might run some more test then!
Click to expand...
My two cents.
A lot of headphone buys are going to be used with portable audio (phone, DAP, etc), which means battery powered, which mean headphone that use less voltage, but need more current, so a solid state headphone amplifier, with a very low (4-Ohm or less) output impedance would be really really preferred, and I'm guessing the Yamaha's headphone jack is just not even close in the running, for that standard.
 
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