Sundara balanced on Zen DAC - very loud!

[collegeboi97]

send the ZEN DAC back and get the ZEN CAN it stops the Sundara from being rolled off bass and helps the soundstage, then just buy an old expensive amp used cheap from ebay later and upgrade to ipower for the Zen CAN when you can

What do you think about getting zen dac v2 as pre-amp for zen can? The 16 core tech DAC seems interesting but could live without MQA though 4.4mm output is nice to have as I already use Sundara with newfantasia 4.4mm cable. It seems zen dac/can stack for $280-310 is better deal than Schiit Modius/Magnus for $400 in terms of features but Schiit stack may beat iFi in sound quality.
One could technically pair zen can with desktop using Apple USB-C dac and 3.5mm-RCA combo that produce clean, nearly free of distortion output but it’s limited to 24/48khz resolution. I guess if someone has portable dac/amp they could use it as dac but if it lacks pre-amp outputs amp chaining is not advisable.
I guess it makes more sense to go with Schiit Modi/Magni Heresey stack for $50 more at this point than standalone Zen CAN.

 

[AlexFL]

Alright, guys, Zen CAN has just arrived and I'm in love. I can confirm that Sundara is a different headphone when powered properly. I will receive 4.4 to 4.4 cable tomorrow and test out of my DAP's 4.4 sources as I don't have a good quality cable now. I'm using a cheap 3.5 to 3.5 cable from some of my active speakers and already hear quite a noticeable difference comparing to HipDac by feeding ZEN CAN from my DAPs 3.5 jack... It has much more power and Sundara's open up and sounds more punchy and correct even on a low volume - the amp headroom is definitely needed. I would absolutely never consider ZEN DAC and CAN combo for Sundara's - it would be too much warmth and fewer details because of the DAC. I would go with a high resolving DAP or DAC + Zen Can combo where CAN adds that beautiful IFI analog warmth on top of details that the source can provide.
I notice a huge difference feeding the CAN with warmish SONY NWZX507 DAP and Clinical M11Pro and I would definitely avoid any warm source with ZEN CAN.... I will test my clinical Topping d50s DAC with it later today and share the feedback if you just want a DAC, I would not go with Topping E30 DAC as it is also warmer and pushes the mids even further.
The Bass boost on CAN is also on another level comparing to hip DAC. It doesn't bloat the frequencies but adds super tasty punch and I actually like the 3D feature of the CAN, on some tracks, it makes magic with the sound stage and on others, I just want to disable it. For me the CAN is definitely a keeper as I can use my multiple sources with the warmth I wanted for Sundaras, the XBass alone would justify the purchase for me comparing to other AMP options.

 

[collegeboi97]

Alright, guys, Zen CAN has just arrived and I'm in love. I can confirm that Sundara is a different headphone when powered properly. I will receive 4.4 to 4.4 cable tomorrow and test out of my DAP's 4.4 sources as I don't have a good quality cable now. I'm using a cheap 3.5 to 3.5 cable from some of my active speakers and already hear quite a noticeable difference comparing to HipDac by feeding ZEN CAN from my DAPs 3.5 jack... It has much more power and Sundara's open up and sounds more punchy and correct even on a low volume - the amp headroom is definitely needed. I would absolutely never consider ZEN DAC and CAN combo for Sundara's - it would be too much warmth and fewer details because of the DAC. I would go with a high resolving DAP or DAC + Zen Can combo where CAN adds that beautiful IFI analog warmth on top of details that the source can provide.
I notice a huge difference feeding the CAN with warmish SONY NWZX507 DAP and Clinical M11Pro and I would definitely avoid any warm source with ZEN CAN.... I will test my clinical Topping d50s DAC with it later today and share the feedback if you just want a DAC, I would not go with Topping E30 DAC as it is also warmer and pushes the mids even further.
The Bass boost on CAN is also on another level comparing to hip DAC. It doesn't bloat the frequencies but adds super tasty punch and I actually like the 3D feature of the CAN, on some tracks, it makes magic with the sound stage and on others, I just want to disable it. For me the CAN is definitely a keeper as I can use my multiple sources with the warmth I wanted for Sundaras, the XBass alone would justify the purchase for me comparing to other AMP options.

Congrats!
It sounds by your assesment that, for me trying hip-dac using 4.4mm -4.4mm cable to Zen CAN would be a bad idea. It looks like d50s doesn’t have balanced pre-amp output, but sounds like using SE on Zen Can with neutral DAC should be better than DAC+CAN balanced stack and true bass feature is a reason for picking Zen Can over Magni.

 

[AlexFL]

If you are happy with Hip DAC detail retrieval then why not? I found that it's too relaxed for Sundaras when AB with my DAPs 4.4 - night and day detail retrieval difference and came to conclusion that it doesn't get Sundaras to their full potential. I decided to try proper amplification before returning them as I have U12T and Fiio FD5 IEMs for my pleasure. Now I'm definitely keeping them with CAN. I feel that I need to burn Can in for a while and test the 4.4 balanced from DAPs and RCA with my DACs before coming to the final conclusion. Class A amps usually need some burn in time, but based on CAN reviews it should stay with the warmish tonality which I like. My ideal sound is on the warmer side and detailed at the same time so I either get a warm DAC with clinical and super fast digital amp or clinical DAC with warmer AMP like D50 with Emotiva AMP for my speakers.

 

[AlexFL]

 

[AlexFL]

So far Topping D50s sounds much better comparing to FiioM11PRO. Outstanding combo for Sundaras

 

[collegeboi97]

So far Topping D50s sounds much better comparing to FiioM11PRO. Outstanding combo for Sundaras

Are u using SE 3.5mm or 4.4mm output for your headphones?

 

[AlexFL]

I'm using 4.4 from Zen Can with KK cable from Amazon. Can has balanced amp circuit and it's using it even if you feed it RCA or Single Ended

 

[collegeboi97]

That’s awesome!

 

[AlexFL]

I decided to try highly rated and measured Topping A50S amp with my D50s Dac and Zen Can is on another level, much more enjoyable and much more power for Sundaras. A50s has no mids in comparison and sounds anemic and fatiguing.

 

[collegeboi97]

I decided to try highly rated and measured Topping A50S amp with my D50s Dac and Zen Can is on another level, much more enjoyable and much more power for Sundaras. A50s has no mids in comparison and sounds anemic and fatiguing.

So I just checked audioscience review forum and they mentioned they fall behind other amps in distortion, though in practice its probably barely noitcable. Only other competitive option for me seemed to be A50s. I think I will pull the trigger like you and get Zen CAN but for DAC get Modi 3+.

 

[AlexFL]

I'm burning A50s in now for couple of days and ordered some great RCA cables which shall arrive in 1 hour, as well as P50 power supply for topping before I give it up will do another AB in couple of hours and can report, but P50 will arrive only on Wednesday

 

[AlexFL]

Our of the box zen can won on sound stage and beautiful analogue sound, especially in mids.

 

[AlexFL]

Another test with high quality RCA interconnect and A50s 40 hours burn in and Zen Can wins hands down, unless P50 power supply is going to make a drastic difference with A50s but it will come on Wednesday. The main difference and key decision point for me is the holographic stage of CAN vs 2D on A50s and on top you get xBass and much more power. Topping needs 4volt DAC for it's maximum power and my D50s DAC is 2 so it is limited. I'm cranking it to 80% while CAN is as loud on 30%. Resolution is the same and CAN has much better tonality. The price is different too if it matters and you can get the CAN with best in industry interconnect cable for cheaper than A50s. Highly recommend this one - you'll hear massive difference: 0.5 Foot - Audiophile... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EL11A20?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[collegeboi97]

0.5 Foot - Audiophile... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EL11A20?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Little pricier than $35 hart audio but 10 year warranty is impressive. And it seems higher quality.