[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox I have always found circumaural headphones to be superior to supra-aural... and I'm including Grado's in that assessment. Then again, it might just be personal preference.

That might be it. Some people just don't like things sitting on their ears, and that's a whole 'nother psychoacoustic study. Coming from an era when all headphones were heavy, claustrophobic and circumaural, I don't mind supra-aural, and a case can even be made for the superiority of supra-aural, since it doesn't create a cavity around the ear with the associated lurking danger of cavity resonances. But even cavity resonances are, finally, a matter of personal preference, or as we psycho acousticians say, preferesonance. It's what makes our acoustics so dang psycho.

More seriously, it's worth quoting that bit from AKG's own history cited by Aphex:

1982: The compact headphones line comprising the K 1, K 2, K 3, and K 4 provides all the features of "big" headphones. In spite of their high-end quality [italics added], they do not sell. Hi-fi enthusiasts simply want "big cans" for their money. The folding K 1 at least make a splash worldwide.

Not that they are bitter.

Audiophiles judging quality by mass and/or volume? Perish the thought.

.

 

[Jon L]

AKG should bring back the K340, maybe an updated version K360? There's a huge hole between K501 and K1000 in their lineup.

Break out the old tooling for K340, use some decent wire this time, use a little less cotton stuffing, and AKG will have a hit on their hands.. Maybe they can outsource to China and drop the price, too.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta In spite of their high-end quality, they do not sell. Hi-fi enthusiasts simply want "big cans" for their money.

Hmmm, it might be interesting to try the K4's some time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L AKG should bring back the K340, maybe an updated version K360? There's a huge hole between K501 and K1000 in their lineup. Break out the old tooling for K340, use some decent wire this time, use a little less cotton stuffing, and AKG will have a hit on their hands.. Maybe they can outsource to China and drop the price, too.

Yeah, they should hire Larry on and integrate his mods... possibly with a woody version.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Hmmm, it might be interesting to try the K4's some time.

We should be so lucky. I'll bet the specs are verrrry interesting.

Don't forget the K145. That came along around 1984, according to theAudio Circuit website. We have one vote against it from elrod-tom, but we should ask him to elaborate on the reasons for his dislike.

 

[elrod-tom]

It was OK...I thought that the bass was weak, and it sounded thin overall. I just don't think that the dual electrostatic/dynamic design lends itself well to open headphones. At least that's my take on it.

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom It was OK...I thought that the bass was weak...

K501 weak? or unamped Hd-600 weak?
I assume when you were comparing the K340 to the K4 both were unmodded.

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta K501 weak? or unamped Hd-600 weak? I assume when you were comparing the K340 to the K4 both were unmodded.

My comparison was K340 to K145. I'm assuming that the K4 is more similar to the K145 than the K340, based on their similar design.

I don't consider the bass of the K501 to be weak...

 

[catscratch]

Damn, 400 ohm impedance and 92 db sensitivity. That's one hard-to-drive phone! I would, however, be interested in hearing them too.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch Damn, 400 ohm impedance and 92 db sensitivity. That's one hard-to-drive phone! I would, however, be interested in hearing them too.

it is a BEAST to power. The K4 destroyed the Supermacro V1. It didn't matter what switches and combos of switches I used - bass boost, impedance, gain, etc - that amp just didn't have the headroom. Even on a delicate solo acoustic guitar track (From Ferrington Guitars) any dynamic bass passage resulted in the most horrendous bass fart you've ever heard. Unlistenable.

The Headroom Coda was far better, but still got garbly in the bass when pushed, and the dynamics just weren't pleasant. But at least I could enjoy the mids and highs - i blocked out the bass my placing the drivers up and back on my ears. It's like switching from flats to bowls instantly lol. The headband was nifty btw, since it had spring adjustment, but didn't pull to get back to normal shape once on the ears - very light even tho they looked like Steel Wheels.

The mids and highs really sounded amazing. Very delicate and detailed with a very wide soundstage. Pretty impressive that this came across in a noisy video salefloor. But the bass, Oi!

Just to put normal can users at ease, I put the KSC-35 back on later and all was right in the world again with the SMv1. It's just that they weren't built to scale the peaks of the K4.

BTW don't ask me who the owner of the K4 was, I'll protect the identity of the innocent lol. I'll say one thing - it looks cool. And as the portable successor to the K340, I'm absolutely looking forward to hearing it driven properly (rumors are that the portaphile v2 was up to the challenge, we'll have to find out for certain at the next mini NYC meet!)

 

[catscratch]

This thing was released in 1984, right? Then what exactly was out there that was capable of driving it properly? And it is supra-aural, right?

I have to say, this has my interest piqued (sp?). Well, anything electrostatic automatically does

 

[WmAx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn The Headroom Coda was far better, but still got garbly in the bass when pushed, and the dynamics just weren't pleasant. But at least I could enjoy the mids and highs -

I know that with the K340, I have to an excess of 8+ VRMS available at the amp outputs to listen to my most dynamic music without distortion. If the K4 is the same... good luck... I had to make an add on 4 x 9V battery pack to provide enough voltage to my portable amplifier in order to properly power the K340. A bulky solution! Does not anyone make a compact amp with a DC-DC convertor to provide high internal voltage in a portable?

-Chris

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch This thing was released in 1984, right? Then what exactly was out there that was capable of driving it properly? And it is supra-aural, right? I have to say, this has my interest piqued (sp?). Well, anything electrostatic automatically does

Yep, Supraaural! The pads were like foam/fabric, thin and flat.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WmAx I know that with the K340, I have to an excess of 8+ VRMS available at the amp outputs to listen to my most dynamic music without distortion. If the K4 is the same... good luck... I had to make an add on 4 x 9V battery pack to provide enough voltage to my portable amplifier in order to properly power the K340. A bulky solution! Does not anyone make a compact amp with a DC-DC convertor to provide high internal voltage in a portable? -Chris

So what voltage did you end up internally, 18V? I'm thinking about sending my SuperMacro v.3 back to Xin to increase the voltage as well as stacking buffers x4, which is possible. The catch is you can no longer charge the rechargeables inside SM after this mod. This 'just' might have adequate voltage drive for my K340.

 

[WmAx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L So what voltage did you end up internally, 18V? I'm thinking about sending my SuperMacro v.3 back to Xin to increase the voltage as well as stacking buffers x4, which is possible. The catch is you can no longer charge the rechargeables inside SM after this mod. This 'just' might have adequate voltage drive for my K340.

The voltage you require depends on the material you listen to. Keep in mind that the particular track that requires over 8 volts RMS to keep the amp out of the clipping range is an opera piece with an approx. -34dBFs average level, with 33 dB peaks. Most music will not require this voltage for peaks. But I listen to classical and opera, and this a requirement for me. The voltage sent to the amplifier from the battery pack is 36 VDC[4x9V batteries in series], which in turn is +/- 18 volts when split in the amp, and this ultimately provides over 12VRMS(peak voltage of 18 factored by 0.707). This is excess of the required voltage, but it's always good to have a little extra room, especially for battery voltage sag as it discharges[a serious problem for alkaline]. An 18VDC[+/- 9 V, RMS is about 6 V] supply did not provide sufficient voltage for the K340 on dynamic music -- horrible voltage clipping distortion occured on significant dynamic peaks. I am not yet aware of any portable amp that provides +8 VRMS output voltage without the use of an external battery pack. If you come across one, please let ME know immediately.....

At the moment, I use a Shellbrook Maxi mated with a matching blank Hammond case fitted with a board and terminals to accomodate four 9 volt batteries. Works great, but uhm, is a bit bulky when used on my belt.

http://www.linaeum.com/images/k340_rig.jpg

Note: if you use a high voltage add-on pack such as this, be certain the parts in the amp are rated for the voltage.

As far as a SuperMacro, I don't know how it's going to produce over 8 VRMS output, unless a DC-DC convertor is used internally to increase the supply voltage from the batteries. I suppose that [relatively] low output impedance, high quality 1:2 transformers on the audio outputs could be an alternative solution. But based on my initial inquiry, the high-quality ones that appeared sufficient for the application are a just a little bit too big to fit inside these portable enclosures..

-Chris

 

[ericj]

So, do we know who ended up with this astoundingly clean K4?

ASTOUNDING AKG ACOUSTICS K4 HEADPHONES - eBay (item 270253734406 end time Jul-13-08 10:57:28 PDT)

If my financial situation were more predictable I'd have been on it like, uh, something that's all over the place. I'm surprised it went for only -L- 15 considering it's still got the box and everything.