Storm Digital D02 - has its quality come into question?

[digitalmind]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 Yea, looking at those pictures again hosted by Patu, I now see why I said the soldering was god awful on the D02. Check this out: http://www.saunalahti.fi/tuolaaks/Ku...02/Inside2.jpg There's parts were the solder is really sparse, sometimes looking like it's not even touching the wire. I see burn marks on the PCB right along traces. Some of the soldering itself looks like he left the iron on WAY to long. I'm not surprised if half the components on the thing were damaged to begin with. This was the main warning for me, when I saw the internal pictures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patu I still think that it looks very clean and well done inside but I'm just a newbie when it comes to soldering. So I won't start arguing with you.

I'm going with Towert7 -- the soldering is very bad. Through hole soldering is the easiest kind to solder, I don't see how it could be done this badly. Most (!) parts don't even have a full contact. For this reason alone I wouldn't buy one, while it may work things are apt to break if shipped or moved (contact points being broken, parts falling off, etc). Also, the soldering can introduce static, pops, and an overall degration of sound quality or even functionality. I'm very dissapointed in the build quality, I was thinking about buying one after the first few reviews showed up here.

I made this image to demonstrate:

Amazingly, the last soldering is allmost everywhere. It looks like this dac was built either in a heck of a hurry, with bad equipment, or just bad soldering skills. There are burn marks everywhere where it seems like he had the soldering iron way too hot (for quick soldering) or on there way to long (for bad soldering skills).

Then again, the soldering could be good on the other side but still, why skimp on the solder?

 

[LeonvB]

Well I've seen it worse. I once had a bunch of server mainboards that lost their components because NO solder was applied. But that was about the only time it was worse.

This is very, very bad quality. I wouldn't be suprised if some of the components are now loose due to the shipping. Instead of shipping a SB to test things I'd ship a nice Weller iron or station, that's most likely the solution to the problem (provided everything worked previously).

I was also thinking about buying one a couple of months back, but I'm now more than ever glad I didn't.

 

[regal]

I am glad to see some honesty reported here.

 

[rincewind]

RE "has the quality of the Storm come into question" - a definite yes.

I had a workmate who is an electronic engineer with decades of experience look at my DAC over the past week. He's spent maybe 2-3 hours on it now and believes he will be finished with it (ie done all he can to make it wor kas best it can) by lunchtime today. I'm not an electronic engineer, but I did study it at uni a few years ago, so if I got some of the terms wrong or jumbled, forgive me, but he said:

1) There is one section of the circuit whose purpose he can't even determine. It's related to power regulation but he couldn't figure out what it was supposed to do, because it's output wasn't what he expected from the schematics (which, by the way, he says also has a few mistakes). He's a bit sus about it but has left it alone for now as the output voltages are what the schematic says, even if he doesn't understand why it's done the way it is.

2) The soldering was JUNK. I was told by another D02 purchaser who kept close tabs on Ken that this particular batch was soldered (at least in part) by a "friend" of Ken's. Whether Ken soldered it or not, he should have had a look, as we can all see that the soldering is bad, judging against the pictures posted above. So either bad soldering or bad quality control on Ken's part. My work friend has completely resoldered the DAC PCB, he says the PSU one looks OK though, so he's left it alone for now.

3) The TDA chips are all set to operate on 8.5V, according to the schematics. My friend looked online and found that this particular chip is design to run on an average of 5V and that they have greater dynamic range if they are set to operate on 9V, but all the sites recommend you don't run them over 8V at the MOST (for reliability and component lifetime). My mate says the chips in the D02 are all set to run on 8.5V! He says he thinks Ken did this to get more dynamics, but says it's pushing the chips to the absolute max and doesn't like the idea for the reasons stated above.

4) On the same subject, he's found that (at least MY DAC) has one incorrect resistor which sets one of the TDA chips to run at 5V instead of 8.5V like the rest! Which is (was) making one of the voltage regulators way hotter than the others. He says whatever voltage they're meant to be running at, they should all be the same. It's one of the small surface mounted resistors that's wrong. It's 100K when it should be 200 (I think). He said he can find a replacement surface mount resistor for me, failing that, he will solder in one of the traditional round ones.

5) He said he fixed a few other small problems like bad joins etc. He also said there are things labelled as Voltage inputs on the DAC schematics that are actually Voltage outputs and vice versa, and some +ve power rails that don't have any symbols to show they are hooked up to power.

I had a listen to the DAC for a few minutes yesterday afternoon (he hasn't finished fixing it yet) and it definitely sounds better, but I'd only bought in my Gilmore Lite and some crummy ear buds for him to listen on for testing (using my iH140 as an optical source). He reckons that when he fixes that last resistor, it will work as well as it's designed to.

Of course, I'll reserve judgement until that last resistor is replaced as I think it would be a major problem that could have a large impact on the sound. Anyone with an ailing D02, I suggest you get an experienced electronic engineer to look at it, armed with this information. It will hopefully fix the problems. I will post on here after I've done some extended listening (ie 20 hours or so. If I can make it through this period of listening with NO faults, I will be satisfied that the DAC is fixed). If it doesn't fix it, maybe my friend will resolder the PSU section to be sure. He will also resolder/rejoin all the input/outputs before giving it back to me today.

*fingers crossed*

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rincewind *fingers crossed*

x 2

THANKS for taking the step towards actually addressing the D02's issues and for the "real information." Real indeed. I am going to hold onto the D02 I've got for a while longer in the hopes that a) all the corrections you mentioned eliminate the pops / buzz / distortion, and b) the signature D02 sound remains somewhat intact. Then I might follow suit.

 

[rincewind]

OK so I've been listening several hours now. I've noticed that the DAC doesn't run quite as hot as before. This is (I'm pretty sure) a result of the resistor being swapped out to make that final chip run at the right voltage. My friend said that's mostly the reason it was getting so hot.

WRT sound: No more pops or clicks whatsoever. But, I still get some low level constant background static noise, through both channels and varying in volume (but I don't know what is changing the volume). If I unplug the digital input signal, the sounds remain. If I unplug the left or right analog output, there is still some static, so it's coming from both channels. Sometimes it is happening from the moment of powerup, sometimes it takes a while to present itself. It is indepentant of the digital source and the amplifier (and therefore independant of speakers/headphones). I also setup in a different room (so different wall outlet).

I'm not sure if my friend did anything with the power supply PCB. But if he sticks a CRO on this thing, he'll see the static pretty easily. So back it goes on Monday. If this static noise is removed completely, I'll be 100% satisfied with the DAC.

I notice the very faint mechanical hum of the transformer that some have spoken of. Not sure why I didn't notice before, maybe because all my problems were very audible just through speakers/headphones and I hadn't stuck my head right up close to listen for that kind of sound. It's nowhere near loud enough to bother me. You have to have a completely silent room and stick your head about 10cm away to hear it at all.

*fingers crossed for Monday* I'm running out of money to fix this thing now, but damned if I'll let this slide while I have some resources left! The fact that the problems are now becoming much smaller and more easily reproducible (as opposed to the initial harsh and intermittent problems) gives me some confidence we can fix it.

 

[rincewind]

OK so I got the Storm D02 back from my workmate the other day. I've ordered another DAC already, so this is just for interest of those trying to repair the D02.

The repairs made were:

1) DAC PCB completely resoldered, with the incorrect resistor replaced (incidentally, with non-surface mount pieces, makes no difference...). The analog outputs and digital input connections were also all resoldered for good measure.
2) Uprated regulators on the DAC chips.
3) Replacement of all the Philips DAC chips and the Cirrus Logic receiver chip.


Repairs were done in stages, solving one probem at a time. 1) fixed the pops and clicks. 2) and 3) fixed the intermittent background static I could here.

Here are the final results:

1) The D02 now works without any noises whatsoever from digital output of my iRiver H140. Sound is as good as I've heard. Seeing as this source is also VERY quiet (mechanically) compared to my PC's, I can see myself using it as my source for a while, especially for late night listening when I can just turn off the MP3 player as opposed to having to get up turn off my PC. Can also control playback in bed this way.

2) The D02 does NOT play friendly with my Harmon Kardon HD970 CDP when I run the CDP's digital output into the Storm. I get what I guess I'd call 'ringing' or 'aliasing' over the top of the music. No good.

3) From my PC, the Storm is very good. Not perfect, because if I turn my Gilmore ALL the way up (note: unusable listening volumes, but I wanted to be sure), I hear a quiet hissing noise that cycles between on and off say 4 times a second. This occurs using both the coax and TOSlink outputs of my soundcard (E-Mu 0404). Since this sound doesn't come from the iRiver, and since the DAC doesn't work at all with my CDP, I can only draw the conclusion that this DAC is finnicky with respect to sources. Many commented on this earlier, so it's probably correct.

As it stands, if it plays friendly with the rest of one's rig, it's a great sounding DAC.

Seeing as I've already ordered this thing's replacement (in a state of temporary insanity while waiting for this to be repaired), I'm possibly selling it to a friend, but only after he uses it for a week or so and confirms that he's happy with it in his system. I'll continue to listen to it until the Audio Note DAC is built (and then compare of course! I wanna see where all my money went....).

 

[Superpredator]

Thanks for the update. I am playing with the idea of dropping a passive modded DAC-AH into the D02 enclosure (and powering with the battery). From the initial input I've gotten it sounds possible, but is pretty well beyond my ability at this point. I broke out the DAC-AH (has upgraded socketed op-amp from Pacific Valve) and it really sounds kind of bad compared to the D02. Unless the passive modded AH sounds that much better than one with an upgraded op-amp I'm not really sure all the work involved would be worth my time.

It would be nice if I could find a source that worked with the D02, though I'm not really prepared to drop $250 on a Squeezebox to find out it doesn't do the trick.

I guess I could move on to another DAC, but I really like the D02 sound. I got it at a discount, so I feel like I have some room to play around. I guess I will acquire some tools as an early Christmas present to myself and see what happens.

Again, thanks for the update and all the information.

 

[MiChael.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif is it me or do I remember back when ppl are still funneling money to Storm, some folks said DO2 was like the best DAC under 1K and compared favorablly to the likes of Lavry and Benchmark? strange how these sentiments change in such a short time period

Maybe, maybe not.. that's subjective. Anyway soundquality isn't everything.
There are lots of very expensive gear which are not very reliable, I'd never pay over 3000usd for such devices, thanks God Storm isn't one of those hi-end gear.
Maybe for some people it's exticing to way to get device back from repairing service or to fix it as DIY.

<sarcasm>Ken might thanks himself not to be sued.</sarcasm>

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiChael. /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe for some people it's exticing to way to get device back from repairing service or to fix it as DIY.

Not quite sure what you mean here. Those who have sent their D02s to get repaired did so, I imagine, because they had spent money which wasn't likely to be retrieved. Since they were effectively sitting on equipment without much resale value, and since many D02s were exhibiting the same problems, I think it was reasonable to pursue repair. I'm not sure anyone enjoys waiting to have something repaired, especially when there's no guarantee that the repair is going to work.

I purchased the D02 (at a discount) knowing that it has issues. Maybe a foolish thing to do--but it is now my primary DAC. In general I'm able to use it regularly without any aggravation and, even with its problems, I choose it over the DAC-AH I've got, I do so because it sounds good to me, not because I'm excited about the possibility of repairing it. I'd much rather it just work perfectly.

 

[MiChael.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superpredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not quite sure what you mean here. Those who have sent their D02s to get repaired did so, I imagine, because they had spent money which wasn't likely to be retrieved. Since they were effectively sitting on equipment without much resale value, and since many D02s were exhibiting the same problems, I think it was reasonable to pursue repair. I'm not sure anyone enjoys waiting to have something repaired, especially when there's no guarantee that the repair is going to work. I purchased the D02 (at a discount) knowing that it has issues. Maybe a foolish thing to do--but it is now my primary DAC. In general I'm able to use it regularly without any aggravation and, even with its problems, I choose it over the DAC-AH I've got, I do so because it sounds good to me, not because I'm excited about the possibility of repairing it. I'd much rather it just work perfectly.

I was maybe a bit too sarcastic, I was referring to those people who have things like Meridian, Wadia, Classe which are letting them down many times. Sure the sound might be good, but technical quality is not as reliable always cause those are either too exotic or complex designs.

But for some people soundquality is more important than functionality and comftyness. Things costing more than 3kusd and have major problems what basic gear don't have is the amusing part.

So I wasn't referring directly to Storm D02, but imho it is important that stuff work

.

 

[Towert7]

Digitalmind, that's a very nice picture you have there illustrating what I was talking about.

rincewind, I'm amazed that repairing it fixed those problems. That's very fortunate that you knew someone who was good in Electrical Engineering.
Hope you get some use out of it now that it's fixed!

 

[akwok]

After spending a significant amount of time and money trying to fix my D02, it still has issues. My repair-dude says it may be design oriented and transport oriented.

I had no issues with my Squeezebox 3, but alas broken is broken.

So I have to write off $500.

 

[rincewind]

My Storm has most likely found a new (and appreciating

) home already. My new DAC (see sig) should hopefully ship on the 4-6th this month. I'm dying waiting for it (esp now I don't have anything which sounds close to the Storm), I really hope it can reach Australia from (I think) Canada before shipping channels slow down because of Christmas.

I would like to echo AKWOK's comments.

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by akwok /img/forum/go_quote.gif After spending a significant amount of time and money trying to fix my D02, it still has issues. My repair-dude says it may be design oriented and transport oriented. I had no issues with my Squeezebox 3, but alas broken is broken. So I have to write off $500.

I commend the honesty on this thread. Initially it was going the "protect my resale" direction. There is just no sense in ripping off another set of customers, this is a good forum.