[Pappucho]

Ok, so I bought my Sota Moonbeam w/Grado Gold Cartridge over a year ago, got a Creek 4330R with add on Phono Card and a pair of B&W CDM1SE's and am still not enjoying my vinyl. This should be a decent entry level vinyl set-up. Granted, most of my discs are old and pretty noisy, but what else could be at fault here? BTW, I did clean the records up pretty well before using them. The problem really isn't the background noise. The music doesn't have any "body" to it. Everything I play sounds thin. I am thinking that there has to be something wrong with my set-up. What would you seasoned vinyl afficionados recommend I do to improve my situation?

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pappucho The music doesn't have any "body" to it.

Never experienced such setup like yours, but most of my old LPs sounded thin like that - and as a proof of Murphy's law at work, a lot of good music got badly mastered. Modern recording (90s) sound a lot better, so you might want to get one 'audiophile' or at least recent LP release to test your system. Apart from some clicks and pops, imo good LPs should sound comparable to CDs.

There used to be a problem in cartridge loading mismatch but I believe your Grado is at standard 47k, and I assume everything is set up properly (tracking anti skating etc).

 

[Pappucho]

Thanks for the info Nak_Man, I'll give that a try.

 

[cebec]

make sure everything's wired with the correct polarity. you may have a phase problem.

 

[Pappucho]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebec make sure everything's wired with the correct polarity. you may have a phase problem.

I don't think the sound is out phase. Images are clearly defined and presented in stereo, there just isn't any "body" or "fullness" to the music. I have a knack for hearing out of phase sound whenever something isn't wired right, so I am pretty sure this isn't the problem. Thanks for your suggestion though. I'll recheck anyways, just in case.

 

[bln]

Have you set up a turntable before, are you certain your tracking force and alignment are set corrrectly?

If it's not that, it's probably poor-condition records. Buy a vacuum cleaner or some sort of wet-cleaning system.

Also, did you install that phono card yourself? Are you sure it's working? Vinyl sounds very thin when not played through proper RIAA equalization.

 

[Pappucho]

Everything came pre-configured from the place I bought the turntable at. It's been over a year now and I can't remember where I bought it but it was supposedly configured correctly. I just had to level the table out which I did using the supplied circular leveler. I am a complete noob at this so I could be wrong.

I am going to try out the new record theory and place an order today for one to see if this could be it. My current records are original pressings mostly from the 70's. They aren't in the best condition. I rescued them from my father's garage.

 

[JefferyK]

Your records will sound dull if:

- The VTA is too low
- The cartridge overhang is off
- The VTF is too heavy
- The cartridge hasn't broken in
- The output of the cartridge is too low for the phono stage
- The phono stage is low quality
- The records were damaged by a crummy stylus
- The records are dirty

I'd start by checking out the cartridge alignment. Get a protractor and a scale and start from the beginning. Check out the Audio Asylum FAQ for instructions.

And clean your records if you haven't already. Hand-washing with a lint brush and a DIY cleaning solution will give you 95% of what you get from vacuum cleaning, IMHO, so no need to run out and buy an expensive cleaning machine.

You're setup is a million times nicer than mine, but my records sound very lively, even ones I've been playing for 20 years.

Jeffery

 

[lini]

Pappucho: What interconnect are you using between the table and the phono input?

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

 

[Pappucho]

Thanks Jefferey for the additional things to check for. I have yet to get all of the necessary equipment to fine tune my rig. I'll get a protractor and try to set it up correctly following those instructions. I did clean the records using some methods I found online. The records look clean, but they still have alot of backgroung noise. I figure buying some new vinyl may rule this possibility out. The phono stage is a Creek basic setup. The creek 4330R doesn't come with this installed already and must be ordered separately. I was thinking that this was the main weakness in my setup but I was looking for altenrative things to check before having it replaced.

Hi Lini, the IC's that I am using is the same one that came with the table. The IC runs beneath the table into a small circular plate beneath the table. I am assuming that this can be removed to detach the IC. I haven't tried it but I would imagine SOTA wouldn't build this thing with a permanent IC. The effect to the music is dramatic and is not of the last 10% which I would think an interconnect would be limited to. In other words, could the interconnect have this much of an effect on the sound?

 

[daveman_84]

New doesn't necesarily mean better. Many of the best sounding LPs I own are old. Sure, many new ones are great, but there are a fair share of stinkers too.

 

[djbnh]

The Creek and Grado Gold may be weak links to look at (I have no idea if there's a good compliance match with the Grado and your TT). Also, I like using the Hi-Fi News Test LP to help dial in the cartridge set-up. I find fine tuning the cartridge set-up to be a necessary and rewarding evil, you'd be surprised what a big difference a small adjustment here or there can make. Same thing for VTA. Proper damping can make a huge difference, etc.

FYI - what arm comes with the SOTA Moonbeam?

Also, try "The Vinyl Engine" for more help, great forum for all vinyl-related issues. Mega free downloads including manuals, protractors, etc.

edit - spelling

 

[drminky]

I also agree that VTA is a most likely candidate. Minute changes can have a huge effect on the sound. An impedance mismatch between the cart/phono stage/preamp/amp also could cause this. Also remember that a phono stage will only put out around line level (1 volt) whereas cdps tend to put out 2 volts (or higher - this is a trick used to make cds sound like they have 'more authority'). This means a significant volume ajustment at the amp is neccessary to get the same SPL of music from vinyl that you get from cd, and even then it may still sound thinner (but more dynamic).

It is well likely it could be the recordings themselves. It could be that the records are worn down previously by a badly adjusted, or bad condition stylus. It could be sub-optimal mixing by 70's tripped out recording engineers, or it could simply be that you are used to hearing (or comparing to) cds that were remastered in the 80s/90s and been compressed to all hell to make them sound 'thicker' and 'louder'.

Let us know how a new record goes (if you can try and get a modern recording, or a remaster, so you can at least compare oranges to oranges)

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drminky Also remember that a phono stage will only put out around line level (1 volt) whereas cdps tend to put out 2 volts (or higher - this is a trick used to make cds sound like they have 'more authority').

Interesting ! Sorry for a bit of threadcrap - but what would be the best or safe way to reduce this output level ... resistor ? Any recommended value ? I noted that ipod also puts out 1V, and I'd like to turn down cdp's output to match those of LP and ipod (yes, strange system i have =). Thanks much.

 

[drminky]

Some places sell attenuators to reduce a cdps output to work with older amps that were never made to handle 2v input (Quad sell some I think), but you do not really want to do this unless you have to, as AFAIK they result in a loss of transparency.