Stax SR-X9000
Jul 27, 2023 at 7:46 PM Post #2,536 of 3,068
When I read that annoying platitude "as the artist intended" I ask myself how Weiss, Bach, Buxtehude, Beethoven and a plethora of other great and true artists through the centuries "intended their works to sound". It doesn't make any sense. And it doesn't even make sense to the performers musicians and conductors, the creators in a secondary sense; and yessss, Stax and classical music is a transcendental partnership, especially the baroque period. It is a misfortune of the laws of nature that electrostatic technology does not allow to manufacture a successful ear speaker model.
 
Last edited:
Jul 27, 2023 at 8:06 PM Post #2,537 of 3,068
It’s totally valid that people who spend good money on equipment should get a sound they enjoy. I’m not sure that is the same as saying people creating music have no expectation on how their work should be heard.

Composers absolutely have a vision of how their works should sound. Most performers have a general sense of this, which is why standard articulation for something like Bach is different from Chopin. That doesn’t mean a performer can’t inject his own point of view and start playing Bach with legato.

Orchestras also have different sounds. The brass section in the Chicago Symphony produces a wall of sound because they focus so much on blending and synching rhythm and articulation. You can change the blend by EQing high frequencies to make trumpets sound louder but that eliminates what makes their sound so special.

Just my two cents.
 
Jul 27, 2023 at 8:36 PM Post #2,538 of 3,068
I understand what the colleague means and I accept his perspective, which refers to things sounding (and in this sense, artists intend something), but I refer to the sound of things, an auditive phenomenon of positioning that qualifies the specifically audiophile position, derived from a strange freedom of our perception, but my English is not sufficient to develop this philosophical topic as I would like.

Aufiophilia is a position, the one we take when we stop listening to things sounding to listen to the sound of things

An important part of my current research and reflection work is about understanding how this is possible.
 
Last edited:
Jul 28, 2023 at 9:09 PM Post #2,539 of 3,068
Yeah, the price is crazy. I really wish Senn would just release the headphones separately like Hifiman. I guess the design of the HE-1 may not allow for that. The HE90 intrigues me, but I'm always very skeptical about buying such older headphones and the reliability concerns that come with that. I'd love to hear them though.

I heard the HE-1 at Can Jam. I was very intentional with my listening experience. I can pick up on the sound of a headphone pretty quickly, so I blew through so many songs in my limited time. I played rap, metal, rock, indie, etc. I would love to have more time with them though to better understand the technicalities. The Shang is better at resolution, soudstage, imaging, and those technicals though (that was pretty clear). The HE-1 had a much better low end, which works well with my preferred genres. I was actually very surprised at how good the bass was. It didn't sound like an estat really at all. I could see somebody definitely preferring the Shang to the HE-1 though. If you want the best resolution, speed, imagining, etc., I think you would prefer the Shang.

Now, how does the HE-1 compare to planars? That is a different subject. I think a good TC setup might be better. I think a good Susvara setup (and I was lucky enough to hear a very well thought out Sus chain at a friend's house), might beat the HE-1 too (my friend agreed). However, we didn't hear them side by side.

The thing with a very well thought out TC or Sus chain, is that you are spending basically the same as the HE-1 (maybe more). The beauty of the HE-1 is that it's an all in one setup. I know people buy external dacs and the like, but you don't have to.

However, you are stuck with just one pair of headphones, while with setups like ours, we can listen to myriad different headphones, presentations, sound signatures, etc. We can choose headphones for specific genres. There is a lot of benefit to that, and as headphones evolve, we can evolve too. That's why I wouldn't sell my setup and exchange it with the HE-1. I think the more practical solution (if you can call audiophile setups practical in Summit-Fi), is to go with separates like we have. The target audience for the HE-1 might now even have to worry about an either or concern though.

I know a few people on head-fi that sold their chain and headphones and got the HE-1, and they appear to be very happy with their decision. So, for others it might be a good alternative. But for me, it would be very hard to give up the variety my collection and setup provides.
Go elsewhere or simply complementary.

I compared the DIY T2 Omega, 009, 007, SGL with HE-1 and still today, the TC is the much fuller realized choice and the stat limp still remains as some consideration. Instead I exhausted a full DHT chain that is the best I have heard with the TC at the helm.

Or go focus on speakers. Ha.
 
Jul 28, 2023 at 10:01 PM Post #2,540 of 3,068
Go elsewhere or simply complementary.

I compared the DIY T2 Omega, 009, 007, SGL with HE-1 and still today, the TC is the much fuller realized choice and the stat limp still remains as some consideration. Instead I exhausted a full DHT chain that is the best I have heard with the TC at the helm.

Or go focus on speakers. Ha.

Totally depends on the genre. Both of you of love Metal (and hip hop for Cig) if I'm not mistaken, which totally agreed, Stax and stats in general just aren't best for. But just to be clear in this thread for others that care about other genres like Classical, Jazz, Acoustic, etc. to a large degree.. stats are generally superior imo. And the x9000 to the TC easily. Although again, I'd never listen to Metal, Hip Hop, etc. with the x9000.. just not a good fit lol (although I know some do), I'd much rather have a TC (or speakers, which is what I use) for that.

Just adding perspective for perspective buyers, that's all.
 
Last edited:
Jul 28, 2023 at 10:15 PM Post #2,541 of 3,068
In my opinion, as music has become increasingly electronic and educational budgets are increasingly slashed (orchestra/band often is cut first), people have become unaware of how little bass comes out of acoustical instruments. If you have heard a live orchestra or played an instrument without electronic amplification, you have a general sense of proper tonal balance for classical music. Unless you were sitting in the studio, you really don't have any idea how modern tracks are supposed to sound.

I listen to mostly classical music. An orchestra usually has 20 violins and maybe half a dozen basses. There is a natural skew to the treble. Maybe because of this, when switching from my pair of Focal Stellias to the X9000, I don't wonder where all the bass went. In contrast, when I put on a pair of u12t IEMs with m20 modules, the bass is so boosted that it completely destroys the natural sound of a orchestra. I can fix that on my u12T with a different module. Over the ear headphones generally aren't tunable. Because of this, bass quality is much more important to me than bass quantity.
Agreed and this is why I loved the Unplugged album on it so much, with live music that "you're there" feeling is pretty unbeatable with the X9000.
At any concert where live music is played without electronic amplification, bass slam/impact is not really a thing.

One advantage I'll say estats have with electronic music is transient elements like attack/decay. The thing about electronic music is the people producing it can create unnatural sounds like doing a step function with the sound wave where it goes from 0 to 1 instantly with no transient response time like a normal analog musical instrument. Estats being the fastest can come closest to replicating a 0 to 1 in an instant type sound like that. Similarly estats can decay faster so if electronic music calls fo the driver to stop instantly, it can (almost).
 
Last edited:
Jul 29, 2023 at 7:56 AM Post #2,542 of 3,068
About "Un-Plugged” and probably better than direct to Disc....

The Klangschloss is an annual Audio Event in Switzerland
KLANGSCHLOSS 2023, 21.-23. April

Last year, the Swiss STAX Dealer had his room directly beside the concert hall and he had a direct XLR link from the Out-Put signal of the microphone amp, to his STAX Amps, kind of parallel to the “Master” tape recorder.

https://www.klangschloss.ch/liverecording

The concerts were played three times and so you could listen to a concert live performance first and move to the STAX room and listen to the next session via the X9000: an absolute high-light in my “HIFI”-experience, as I never before heard a concert more less identical in real and as direct live replay without any cutting, storage or treatment, immediately afterwards in such immaculate sound quality.

Regards
Urs

PS: There were 3 group playing on three days - You can get an LP or some extracts as downloads and even at home, the X9000 still re-creates this live feeling....
https://www.klangschloss.ch/liverecording
Sorry- all comments etc are only in German
 
Last edited:
Aug 1, 2023 at 4:14 AM Post #2,543 of 3,068
When I read that annoying platitude "as the artist intended" I ask myself how Weiss, Bach, Buxtehude, Beethoven and a plethora of other great and true artists through the centuries "intended their works to sound". It doesn't make any sense. And it doesn't even make sense to the performers musicians and conductors, the creators in a secondary sense; and yessss, Stax and classical music is a transcendental partnership, especially the baroque period. It is a misfortune of the laws of nature that electrostatic technology does not allow to manufacture a successful ear speaker model.
This is actually a highly discussed topic but there is an rather simple answer to that, to the surprise of a lot of people.

Well first of all, no recording equipment existed at the time where Bach, Beethoven and so on lived but(!), and here comes the important part, those arrangements of those songs that are recorded, those people are (mostly) alive. So you could ask them, how is it intended to sound. You could hand them over an Hearphone and ask "Is this correct?"

Or even better, in a lot of cases you can attend one of the live plays they recorded and know first hand how it is supposed to sound. I, for example, attended an concert that was recorded (You can even see me on the DVD), so i know first hand how exactly it is supposed to sound and what the artists intention is and can compare it to that.

But it goes even further, sometimes artists themself make earphones that sound exactly how they want things to sound, for better or worse.

For example the Just Ear Series from Sony have several models where the Artist themself tuned the earphone exactly to their taste. So if you buy that earphone, you have the artists intention of this artist. You wan't to know exactly how Eir wants her songs to sound? Buy her Earphone: https://www.sony.co.jp/Products/justear/limited/XJE-MHEIR/

Last but not least, as an artist myself, also knowing lots of other artists, i can tell you, that most just listen with reference monitors. Sounds boring, but that is actually the case. Most of those reference monitors have been tuned by artists. Not by one artist but with a lot of artists and pa engineers and recording/mixing engineers and so on, because they use it in the end.

So if you buy any professional reference monitor like the IER-M9, TG335, VE6/8, SE846, Mach 70/80 and so on, that is what artists use themself to judge their own performance and use to perfectly tune, how something is supposed to sound in their intention. That is what PA-Engineers to use to define, how the life sound is supposed to sound, what recording/mixing/mastering engineers use to define, how is the recording supposed to sound and so on.

Not every monitor does match every single artists intention perfectly, but you would be surprised how many artists plug in one of these Monitors into their ears and will say "Yes, this is exactly how it should sound".

So if you want to know the artists intention, you would have to get an good reference monitor. But do you really want the artists intention? Its just one (or several) people with an opinion. Artists do change their opinion constantly, from one album to another, between two performances and so on.

There is a reference, these above mentioned monitors, but they are nothing more, nothing less.

So the ultimate truth is, that you are listening to music for your own enjoyment and that might include intentionally screwing the artists intention. If you like more bass than the artist intended, do you really rather listen to the music with the artists intention and not enjoy it, just for the sake of it?
 
Last edited:
Aug 8, 2023 at 2:06 AM Post #2,544 of 3,068
Totally depends on the genre. Both of you of love Metal (and hip hop for Cig) if I'm not mistaken, which totally agreed, Stax and stats in general just aren't best for. But just to be clear in this thread for others that care about other genres like Classical, Jazz, Acoustic, etc. to a large degree.. stats are generally superior imo. And the x9000 to the TC easily. Although again, I'd never listen to Metal, Hip Hop, etc. with the x9000.. just not a good fit lol (although I know some do), I'd much rather have a TC (or speakers, which is what I use) for that.

Just adding perspective for perspective buyers, that's all.
Add a subwoofer lol, it takes estats to the next level and they can do anything at that point...
 
Aug 29, 2023 at 9:26 AM Post #2,548 of 3,068
I know it is not so simple (pairing, tone-wise), but just as benchmark in terms of raw power, what do I need for a X9K to sing?
 
Aug 29, 2023 at 12:43 PM Post #2,549 of 3,068
They are fairly easy to drive so I don’t think power-wise you need to restrict yourself for the X9K. Tone wise tho I recommend something on the tubier side. KGGG, Megatron. If you don’t want to drop a lot of coin now then a 007tA would work.

Just my 2¢. Others may have different thoughts.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top