[Snake]

Hi guys (and gals). Do you mind if I ask a question?

I have Stax SR-Lambda Pro's. Quite a while ago I sent them, and the amp (SRA-14S), to be repaired. When they came back one side of the headphone's drivers were replaced and the amp repaired; however, it seemed that the side-to-side balance was off. One side seemed louder than the other, by a few dB, and the sides did not track volume settings the same. The left side seemed to vary that volume difference over the volume control's range, which I then had to make up for using the split volume controls of the amp.

I discussed this with the repair people and they said they checked the system out in house after the repair, and no anomalies were found. So, figuring it was break in of the new components, I lived with it.

And lived with it...

I thought it was a problem, after living with it for quite a while, with the amp's bias circuit (the area repaired). However, yesterday I hooked the Pro's up to a different amp and...same problem, tracking the same way.

So, it's the 'phones.

I'm thinking that rather than repair my wonderful old Pro's I should just use the money to buy new cans, the 404's, and get the new technology. The price of 404's seems (almost) cheap, I feel, for what you get so I think it might make more sense. But, after reading about 303's and 404's, the issue of 'treble etch' has appeared.

It seems some people feel that the Stax have this characteristic. I thought, "Hmm, strange, I never felt my Pro's had a 'treble etch'. Forward and a pinch dry, yes. Etched? Never. I like my Pro's - so they're a little unforgiving

".

I've come across information that the reason I may feel the Pro's don't have 'treble etch' is because many people feel they don't - that 'treble etch' is a result of the new, thinner diaphrams used, like in the 303's and 404's. This has me worried; will I actually be upgrading, or losing because what I love about my Pro's has been masked by a larger problem?

So, what do you think? Buy new 404's or send my Pro's (hopefully to Stax directly) to be repaired, again? (if I go through a second repair I want Stax to do it this time). Should I do both??

I am hoping for comments, and maybe (if I'm lucky) some who have Pro vs. 404 comparisons under their belt. It's a dream, asking politely for this, but I can try.

Thank you for reading.
Humbly,
Snake

 

[Uncledan]

how much did you spend for repair your headphone? If the repair cost is more then $120 (include shipping cost), then why don't you go buy a pair of 404? Also, I guess (?!?!) 404 may sounds better then SR-Lambda Pro's .....

 

[minya]

I'm afraid I can't give you a Lambda Pro vs. 404 comparison, but I can tell you that I have a nearly brand-new set of SR-404s and I hear no "treble etch."

They're bright, yes; forward, yes; but there's no "etch" or sibilance.

If I were you, I'd go for new 404s. (Or Omegas?

)

- Chris

 

[slindeman]

Obviously you've been reading threads on Headwize.

I don't think that the question you have asked was ever completely answered. I think that the consensus was that the headphones that definitely had treble etch were the previous generation ones (previous to the current generation that is), i.e. the ones that came with the SRM-3 and SRM-T1 amps, also called the Lambda classic and Lambda signature, but without the SR-303 and SR-404 designations. They had even thinner diaphrams than the current ones, I believe. The question at headwize was whether the new SR-303 and SR-404 which have slightly thicker diaphrams had solved the etch problem. I don't recall that anyone ever definitely said one way or the other whether the problem was solved.

While I can't help you as much as you'd like, I can say that I never found fault with the SR-404s treble, at least in comparison to the other good headphones I owned such as Grado HP-2 and Senn HD600. The only thing I would change is to add a bit more bass and make the pads deeper and more circular. Well they've done that and called it the Omega II and made it way too expensive for me.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Etched: no
Forward: yes.

The SR404s are a forward set of cans, but I have never found them etched at all. (Remember I am powering mine with a KGSS and not a Stax amp when taking my comments into account.)

These cans run $400 when imported from EIFL, so why not replace the other driver and keep that which you already love so much? If you ever get the chance to audition a pair of SR404s or 303s in your system, give them a try and see what you think for yourself. No one else can really help with whether or not you'll think they're etched or overdone in the treble since we aren't accustomed to the SR Lambda Pros that you have. Your ears are trained and accustomed to a certain sound, and the change might not be to your liking now.

 

[zzz]

I find that sr404 has a peculiar treble distortion for which the word `etch` indeed seems fitting. I began noticing it only after living with the omegas for a while though, but obviously that is not a prerequisite since a bunch of people including you have heard it right away.

o2 is completely devoid of said distortion, but then it's a totally different design at 4 times the price

.

 

[Snake]

I would like to thank all for their responses so far. I don't deserve you.

Yeah, I've been reading HeadWise. I could just send my Pro's in to Stax (direct) and maybe they'll be able to exactly tell what's wrong, but maybe they will replace BOTH sides considering its age and all. I am just not sure if it is worth putting money into repairing the old gal, or use it for new.

SR-404's are cheap. Between Eifl, AudioCubes, and my old dealer contact looking for them at US dealer cost the price I'll pay from someone is, frankly, so cheap for Stax I'm quite in awe over how much prices have come down (I'm used to Stax price burn!). Omega's, however, aren't at the "just give them a try!" price, and I'm not sure my system and amp are that good; I'll have to start an upgrade cycle to keep up with them, I'm sure. No flames, but not to mention some people throwing around the 'dark' word in regards to them.

After well over a decade of L-Pro sound I'm used to sitting in the 3rd row during my listening. It's what attracted me in the first place. As one review kind of implied, Omega's get pushed back a number of rows and I am not sure I'm ready for that.

If I may, I think I may say that L-Pro's are the cans that made Stax famous, and they aren't unbalanced in any significant way. They just have some characteristics which you like or don't . The new stuff seems to be spoken of as almost slightly unbalanced in areas, each new model different in that area.

I was thinking Senn HE60's but since they're discontinued I'll have to find used, and I'm not sure I'll want to live with the Senn sound forever. Maybe as a second (or third) set...

Damn, you people know how to ruin a guy!!

I wouldn't have ever considered the idea of having multiple pairs of cans, not until I came here!!!

I guess maybe I'll look into doing both - new 404's and repair L-P's. This way I'll have two cans, two characters (from the sound of it)...and I'll be able to do a comparison and tell you guys about it

Hey, someone's gotta do it!

I'll drop Stax an email and see what happens. What do you guys think?

Thanks, as always,
Snake

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Sorry, but I misunderstood the use of the word etched in my response. According to the StereoPhile audio terms list it means:

etched - Very crisp and sharply outlined, focused to an almost excessive degree.

Having read this I would now say it is more than likely that the SR404 is indeed etched. This is not always a bad thing, but the highs are definitely very crisp with these cans, and a bit forward to boot.

 

[Snake]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador Sorry, but I misunderstood the use of the word etched in my response. According to the StereoPhile audio terms list it means: etched - Very crisp and sharply outlined, focused to an almost excessive degree. Having read this I would now say it is more than likely that the SR404 is indeed etched. This is not always a bad thing, but the highs are definitely very crisp with these cans, and a bit forward to boot.

Thank you for that reply.

That's a description that was never used for L-P's; they were "a bit forward" and "a touch dry" as per people like Stereophile and such, but never "etched". As I was thinking of today, the "ProAc's of the headphone world".

I've send an email to Stax, and hope for a response. I may inquire about replacing BOTH side units, as a whole, to guarantee getting new, equivalent performance. Then, they'll be (in terms of their playback) as good as they were new. I still think I'll get the 404's to try them out but I'm going to try putting the repair of the L-P's on the front burner.

Thanks

 

[minya]

Keep us updated, Snake. Curious to hear what your findings are.

zzz makes a good point. Not having heard the Omegas, I really can't say whether or not the 404s have a treble 'etch' in comparison. However, 'etch' or not, I can say that it doesn't bother me (at least not now, in my not-having-heard-Omegas state) - so I love 'em.

- Chris

 

[Snake]

Quote:

Originally posted by minya Keep us updated, Snake. Curious to hear what your findings are.

Thanks. Someone heard you - I just got the reply from Stax.

They want $500 + labor & shipping for new L-P diaphrams, while of course new 404's are $400 from AudioCubes & etc.

Does anybody know if I contact Eifl about the replacement diaphrams, they may sell the entire assembly for less (I'm hoping for a complete set of side assemblies, making a new unit except for the frame).

Someone is selling L-P's at half that price used, but I don't know if I'm just getting myself into the same position of diaphram problems. Edit - decision:I'm going to order 404's, they are cheap anyway. I'll work with the L-P's as they are or do something later.

 

[Uncledan]

Quote:

They want $500 + labor & shipping for new L-P diaphrams

This is just CRAZY!!

 

[ServinginEcuador]

One man's etch (Senn lovers) is another man's passion (Grado lovers.) It's all about personal preference.

 

[Canman]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador One man's etch (Senn lovers) is another man's passion (Grado lovers.) It's all about personal preference.

Absolutely! Hey snake, enjoy your new SR-404's! Methinks you won't be missing your old Stax cans.

 

[fyrfytrhoges]

i cannot comment on the omegas as i have not heard them. but in the short time i have had with the 404s i can say that there are certainly brighter presentations out there. for the price i would go with the 404's myself unless i won the lottery in which case it would be the omegas!!