[OYV1983]

Hi all,

I’d like to upgrade my Stax system and I wonder if anyone here has some advice. If I were to upgrade one component, should I buy a better Stax headphone, or a better energizer?
I can’t afford to upgrade both.
What would be the best upgrade?

My current system consists of:
Stax 700mkII
Stax 353X energizer
RME adi2 dac

 

[SolarCetacean]

I think first, the question is "what do you want to get out of this upgrade"? The answer to that question will inform what you will get. Do you like what the L700mk2 provides, but just want it a bit better? Or do you want a different sound from what the L700 provides? If you're going for the first, then probably getting a better energizer is the path to go. Electrostatics benefit more from amps than normal headphones, so you'd probably get good results from a higher-powered amp, possibly a tube amp too. It depends on what sound qualities you want more of. If you want more punch, more bass slam, and more control over the treble, perhaps a solid-state amp or a CCS-equipped/modded tube amp (e.g. from Mjolnir Audio) would be best. If you want a smoother and softer sound to mellow out the L700, then an unmodded tube amp from Stax could fit the bill.

If you want a different sound, then maybe an upgrade to your headphones would be more suited, but note that the higher-end Stax models, particularly the 007, are more demanding on amps than your L700. So you might want an amp upgrade first, if just to prepare the stage for the high-end Stax models. Then the question of headphone becomes what you want from that headphone. I haven't heard the TOTL Stax models myself, but from what people say, the 009 is more similar in sound to the L700, so if you want the same bright sound that the L700 provides, but with more detail, then the 009 is the upgrade path. But if you want a warmer sound, with more bass and less treble, then the 007 is the path forward. Note that you probably won't get the same soundstage in the round Stax. The rectangular and angled Lambda-style housing of the L700 produces a very unusual soundstage that I haven't noticed in the round-earcup electrostatic headphones that I have tried.

 

[OYV1983]

I think first, the question is "what do you want to get out of this upgrade"? The answer to that question will inform what you will get. Do you like what the L700mk2 provides, but just want it a bit better? Or do you want a different sound from what the L700 provides? If you're going for the first, then probably getting a better energizer is the path to go. Electrostatics benefit more from amps than normal headphones, so you'd probably get good results from a higher-powered amp, possibly a tube amp too. It depends on what sound qualities you want more of. If you want more punch, more bass slam, and more control over the treble, perhaps a solid-state amp or a CCS-equipped/modded tube amp (e.g. from Mjolnir Audio) would be best. If you want a smoother and softer sound to mellow out the L700, then an unmodded tube amp from Stax could fit the bill.

If you want a different sound, then maybe an upgrade to your headphones would be more suited, but note that the higher-end Stax models, particularly the 007, are more demanding on amps than your L700. So you might want an amp upgrade first, if just to prepare the stage for the high-end Stax models. Then the question of headphone becomes what you want from that headphone. I haven't heard the TOTL Stax models myself, but from what people say, the 009 is more similar in sound to the L700, so if you want the same bright sound that the L700 provides, but with more detail, then the 009 is the upgrade path. But if you want a warmer sound, with more bass and less treble, then the 007 is the path forward. Note that you probably won't get the same soundstage in the round Stax. The rectangular and angled Lambda-style housing of the L700 produces a very unusual soundstage that I haven't noticed in the round-earcup electrostatic headphones that I have tried.

Thank you very much for your elaborate and helpful post!
I love the sound signature of the L700mkII. It doesn’t seem bright to me at all. Maybe because I owned a Stax 404 ear speaker in the past and that definitely was bright.
Could also be that the RME dac smoothes things out. I’m not sure.

I’d like a bit bigger/wider sound stage and more depth in the sound (as in a deeper soundstage) a bit more bass would be nice too.

I’ve tried the 007mkII years ago (on a Stax amp) and I liked it a lot. I don’t know the audio terms, but what I didn’t like about it was that vocals sound far away. The L700mkII has a more forward presentation.

Would my current 353x energizer be good enough for an 009(s)?

 

[arielext]

I used the 007mk2 with the 353x. Lovely combo. Later switched to a kgsshv, still lovely. Wasn't worth the extra money imo.

 

[SolarCetacean]

I think the 353x may be sufficient for the 009S, depending on how loudly you listen. If the music is meant to be moderate in volume, then it works. If you want to listen at levels approaching live music, then probably not.

Again, I haven't heard the 009(S) for myself, but it seems from impressions and reviews I've read that it might be the closest to an upgrade you can have, though bass might be a mixed bag. From what I've seen, the 009S is brighter, has a wider and deeper soundstage, and has decent bass too, though I suspect the bass will be different as much as it is better. From measurements, and from my experience comparing my L700mk2 with my Shangri-La Jr, the L700 has a mid-bass hump which boosts the bass around where many drums have a lot of energy, but drops off in the sub-bass, so you won't have as much of that super-deep rumble that affects things like sound effects, some electronic bass synths, and the lowest notes of a pipe organ. The 009 has better extension into the sub-bass, but it lacks the mid-bass hump of the L700, so it loses out on the warmth that the bass hump adds to the overall sound. Which type of bass presentation you prefer will likely depend on what kind of music you listen to. As always, if you can find a store in your country where you can try out the 009S before buying it, that would be the best thing to do.

For my experiences with the L700mk2, when I went from a low-power SRM-D10 to an SRM-006tA that was fitted with the CCS mod by Spritzer at Mjolnir Audio, I noticed an increase in bass slam and punch and an increase in treble clarity and instrument separation. I did not notice an increase in actual soundstage size (just better separation and layering of instruments within that space), nor did I notice an increase in bass quantity (just the amount of slam that I perceived from that bass). I have not experienced a change in the fundamental character of a headphone from an improvement in the amp. So if those smaller changes sound sufficient for you, then I would suggest an amp upgrade. If you want a bigger change to the sound, I suggest looking into the 009/S.

 

[yaluen]

... Note that you probably won't get the same soundstage in the round Stax. The rectangular and angled Lambda-style housing of the L700 produces a very unusual soundstage that I haven't noticed in the round-earcup electrostatic headphones that I have tried.

This is true for me, chiefly the perceived image exists a bit more frontally with the new lambdas vs everything else from Stax, probably safe to assume it comes down to the angled driver housings.

Thank you very much for your elaborate and helpful post!
I love the sound signature of the L700mkII. It doesn’t seem bright to me at all. Maybe because I owned a Stax 404 ear speaker in the past and that definitely was bright.
Could also be that the RME dac smoothes things out. I’m not sure.

I’d like a bit bigger/wider sound stage and more depth in the sound (as in a deeper soundstage) a bit more bass would be nice too.

I’ve tried the 007mkII years ago (on a Stax amp) and I liked it a lot. I don’t know the audio terms, but what I didn’t like about it was that vocals sound far away. The L700mkII has a more forward presentation.

Would my current 353x energizer be good enough for an 009(s)?

I'd say your impressions are all on point, regardless of amp and DAC. The new lambdas all bring down the upper mid to lower treble response (to varying degrees) which some cite as a pain point with the old lambdas.

Given that, if you find the 404 bright, then the 009(S) will most likely sound as bright if not more to you, with more treble energy. Yes staging is deeper and wider. If you're up for EQing down the top end perhaps it could serve as a satisfactory upgrade. If not, personally anyways, I consider L700MK2 / 007 / 009 as all being perfectly valid stopping points for a Stax system if only because the tonal balance is so different between the three. Objectively speaking, I'd say the L700MK2 is the most balanced, closest to neutral to my ears. Also, could be useful for you to look into the blu-tac mod for your L700MK2 to refresh your hearing as to the bass profile of Stax with non-vented ear cavities. Agree that auditioning first would be ideal if at all possible.

 

[OYV1983]

I’m a bit worried about moving up the Stax line for another reason: I also like many modern artists and some of them have horribly produced/sound-engineered albums.
L700mkII sounds very musical to me and I can enjoy badly done albums with it. Will I be able to enjoy that with a 009s for example? I’m not so sure yet.
Modes anyone have an experience with that ?

 

[Lv100Pidgeot]

In a bit worried about moving up the Stax line for another reason: I also like many modern artists and some of them have horribly produced/sound-engineered albums.
L700mkII sounds very musical to me and I can enjoy badly done albums with it. Will I be able to enjoy that with a 009s for example? I’m not so sure yet.
Modes anyone have an experience with that ?

L700 is already a very detailed headphone. If the recording of modern albums doesn't bother you on it as is, then I seriously doubt moving up the rest of the stax line would change that.

 

[OYV1983]

L700 is already a very detailed headphone. If the recording of modern albums doesn't bother you on it as is, then I seriously doubt moving up the rest of the stax line would change that.

Thank you. That’s good to know!

 

[yaluen]

I’m a bit worried about moving up the Stax line for another reason: I also like many modern artists and some of them have horribly produced/sound-engineered albums.
L700mkII sounds very musical to me and I can enjoy badly done albums with it. Will I be able to enjoy that with a 009s for example? I’m not so sure yet.
Modes anyone have an experience with that ?

Comes down to the individual really. For poorly produced music I suppose one ideal would be for a headphone's response to be as even as possible so bad eq/mixing/compression/etc is not further exaggerated but how well that translates is going to be highly dependent on each person's own hearing and auditory system. Yet for myself I can find musical enjoyment from a lot of cans given enough "ear burn-in" or time spent getting used to the tuning of a headphone, including the 009.

That said I remember when I first heard one, my initial reaction was a visceral distaste for its brightness/leanness, even though on extended evaluation the 009 really isn't that much brighter/leaner than one of the old lambdas that I've had as my primary Stax for the longest time at that particular point. Guess it was just a bridge too far for me right then which I've always found curious since some consider legacy lambdas bright/lean already and you'd think I'd favour that kind of sound. Beyond evenness, how crucial to your musical enjoyment is a tonal balance that aligns with your preference?

And besides musical enjoyment, also consider ear fatigue vis a vis heavily compressed music and how a brighter signature may exacerbate the issue.

To be honest all this is very subjective and depends on a host of factors not least of which is how loud one usually listens at, so only you would be able to reasonably anticipate what your reaction to the 009 would be. All to say, same as earlier above, an audition would be your best bet.

 

[yaluen]

... Beyond evenness, how crucial to your musical enjoyment is a tonal balance that aligns with your preference? ...

Let me amend this a bit since it reads like I'm making it out to be a black and white thing. Really it falls within a range, some are quite tolerant and the range of tonal balances they're able to enjoy can be quite wide, for others the range is narrow. How well the 009 aligns with your own range is probably the more precise point of consideration. In my case, my first impression was it's too tilted then with prolonged listening I find I can settle into the sound. Maybe it turns out that's case for you as well, maybe not.

And this is better evaluated within the context of the entire sound signature of the headphone, imaging/staging/etc. Further still, to throw in yet another wrench it's entirely possible for your preferences to change over time