[Brumagician99]

Newbie here - so i'm going to speak in a lingo that is pretty basic and I've read up on most similar threads to this and I have had no conclusive answers. I have decided to splash out on some headphones as I have realised I am an audiophile in the making and will go through the inevitable "upgraditis" in the next year to come.
 
But okay i have to start somewhere, and even though I have the money to splash out on say RS1 or HD650s i'd rather start on the lower audiophile end to understand what i get when I upgrade from sr80i/125i to sr225i, sr325i or hd650 - in particular what benifits in SQ I can hear.
 
My first question is this:
 
I am more or less settled on the fact I will start with Sr80i. Does it need to be amped? I've read alot of people saying that it doesnt need to be because of the low impendence. I dont want a cheap amp that would sacrifice quality.
 
I have read about Cmoys and little dots etc, im not too keen on the "build it yourself" amps. Also I do not plan to go walking around with the amp, it will stay at home and only at home. (Thats if i need one)
 
Second question:
 
The low impedance factor, am i correct in saying that sr80i are 32 ohms and so are 325i's. Ive read many people amping 325i's to realise full potential and people saying dont bother amping the 80i's. So if impedence is not playing a part, at what threshold of impedance (or any other variable for that matter - remmeber im a newb) should you be amping/not amping.
 
Thanks, I look forward to comments
 

 

[irishsammy]

Hi Bru.  Welcome to Headphone Central. 

 
My 2 cents would be:
 
I have the 125i's and that's all I've heard so far in the Grado lineup.  With that said, there is really nothing at all like the sound you get from a set of Grado cans.  I think you'll be happy with any of their offerings if you dig their sound.  And that will be what you'll have to figure out. 
 
But assuming you do like them, my experience with amping has been pretty standard.  The 125i's sound great without an amp and I think anyone who says an amp isn't necessary with them is at least partly right.  If you do want to amp them, however, what I think you'll notice is just a more "solid" presentation of all the Grado's strengths.  That is to say, your bass will be a bit more punchier and what little extension you have into the nether regions (which won't be much) will have better control and clarity.  And your mids and treble will still be that inimitable Grado style but they'll just be the smallest bit more focused and under control. 
 
For reference, the amp I've used most with the 125i's has been the NuForce uDAC2 so you might get even more solidity from something fancier.  But I'd be willing to bet that if you give your Grados an 8/10 unamped, adding an amp will probably bump it up maybe to an 8.5/10 at the most. 
 
Hope this helps.  When you do decide on what route you're going to take, it would be great to hear your impressions of it.  Happy listening!
 

 

[Brumagician99]

Thanks a lot for this response irishsammy, I'm looking forward to my grado's too much. And the way you present the 'minor' changes u get with the amp... you make it sound as if its worth having one (even for the 0.5+)!!
 
Is there a difference in USB headphone amps and 'normal' ones. I have been told to stay away from the usb and digital side of things, well not stay away, but more go along the desktop/tube amp. 
 
but what do you prefer if you had the choice, say with a budget of around £150 or $250? for grado 80i or 125i, which amp (even if you havent owned one) do u believe would have the most control and have the most noticable difference in +tive SQ?
 

 

[irishsammy]

That's all this hobby is, honestly...figuring out what that % improvement is that you would get with a given upgrade and then figuring out whether it's worth the money. 
 
Personally, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer on which type of headphone amp you get, usb-powered vs. wall-powered.  I've probably heard the same things that you have about USB being inherently flawed because of power abnormalities that are induced by the internal PC environment but honestly, I have never heard a USB interface sound noticeably different quality-wise for amplification.  I haven't heard every USB DAC or amp but the ones I have heard haven't been any more flawed than the stuff that is plugged into the wall.  
 
I haven't heard them yet (mine is on its way right now) but supposedly something like the KICAS Caliente is a good match for the Grado sound (more "tubey", warmer...the amp, that is).  Purity Audio is having a sale on all the blue-colored KICAS's and Calientes right now...$229 plus shipping.  Don't know if that's up your alley or not but I've heard good things about the Purity Audio stuff.  Skylab did a pretty good review of the Caliente if you want to take a look and the Purity Audio guys are users right here on head-fi...omendelovitz is one and the other escapes me.
 
I think the overall idea for amping Grados is to find something on the warm side just because the Grados can be a little hot in the mids and highs.  So maybe if you can find a tube amp or a hybrid, that would be the way to go, too.  Unfortunately, tubed stuff tends to be expensive so it's not for budget-minded folks unless you can find it used.  I've listened to the Grados with my Matrix M-Stage and it's definitely not bad but it can get a little sizzly at times and it gives me fatigue if the volume is too high for extended periods.   
 
Hope this helps.  And I hope you dig the Grados.  They're a one-of-a-kind type of sound...not perfect for everything but I don't think I'll ever get rid of the 125i's just because the Grado sound is sort of an addiction and I need my fix every once in a while. 

 

[irishsammy]

Just remembered...the Maverick Audio A1 amp is $200 and has a tube headphone stage.  That might be your ticket right there.

 

[Brumagician99]

Thanks for the purity audio advice this is all new to me and i will give a shout to omendelovitz  when i get some time! Thats a lot of advice thanks
 
Ive heard alot about the brightness of grado's on these forums, its almost to the extent that when one thinks of  grado's its grado's=brightness. But if the tubes like the mavA1 or littledot3 or caliente can soften this brightness a touch it would be perfect.
 
Haha ive heard about the grado addiction - im looking forward to it
 
Irish - sorry to be such a newb man - whats a hybrid? is it just a mix between solid state and tube like the maverick audio a1? Because if this is the case (2 in 1) does it detract from the quality? Would u just rather have 100% SS or 100% tube? I just remember once having a printer that was also a scanner cambo - looks good on paper but it was so so lame lol.

 

[Brumagician99]

What do people mean by soundstage? and just stage in general in terms of SQ? I dont think this in the same context though
 
Quote:

Just remembered...the Maverick Audio A1 amp is $200 and has a tube headphone stage.  That might be your ticket right there.

 

 

[irishsammy]

We all have to start somewhere.  No apologies needed. 
 
Yeah, a hybrid is just tubes and SS mixed together.  There are all kinds of ways to implement it and I guess how good it is depends on what you get.  There are good and bad circuits.  But unless you're scraping the bottom of the barrel on Ebay, most hybrids from reputable dealers are at least adequate.  I have an all-tube integrated driving my full-size speakers and I love the sound there but all my can amps have been SS so far and I have no complaints overall.  I had some brightness/distortion issues with the M-Stage at first but then I rolled in a different opamp and things are much smoother now.  I might find a tube can amp that I like at some point but if not, I guess that shows that full size speakers and cans aren't really the same animal for me. 
 
I hear you on the Grado = bright thing.  That's what I thought at first, too.  I actually traded a tube integrated with somebody on a whim to get my 125i's and I wasn't looking forward to listening to them because I'm overly sensitive to bright speakers and audio gear in general.  But I honestly don't consider it bright in that sense.  To me, it's more of a "forward" sound...like the difference between sitting in the back of a concert audience and sitting on stage.  Sure, the high pitched stuff is more prominent but it's not that the actual tones themselves are pushed or peaky.  If you can get flat earpads for your Grados, that will help the brightness, too.  I've never heard the bowls but I hear they're quite a bit different.  Not sure what your Grados will come with out of the box... 
 
And the cool little stuff you'll hear with Grados makes all that mid and high end forwardness worth it.  In metal and harder music, I've heard guitar textures that I never had any hint of before the Grados.  And on intimate acoustic stuff, it's like you're walking around the artists while they're recording it...not just listening from the booth.  They're even a lot of fun on electronic music.  Listening to stuff like Infected Mushroom is a different experience with Grados but definitely worth the price of admission.     

 

[irishsammy]

Quote:

What do people mean by soundstage? and just stage in general in terms of SQ? I dont think this in the same context though
 
Quote:

Just remembered...the Maverick Audio A1 amp is $200 and has a tube headphone stage.  That might be your ticket right there.

 

Soundstage is just how wide and deep your cans sound.  Personally, I think the Grados' soundstage is pretty neat but some people say they have none...as in everything is right there under the microscope and there's not a "big picture" to the sound. 
 
And a headphone stage is just the section of an amp that drives the headphones.  It's like the preamp stage and the amp stage in a bigger amp.  So yeah, not the same context. 

 

[Brumagician99]

Yeah thanks a lot irish your saving my life here. And i feel what your saying with the brightness andbeing on stage or seated 5 rows back, some people have also muttered the same thing about the grado's on these forums.
 
I listen to all types of music, mostly female vocal like aaliyah, norah jones katie melua and mariah carey leona lewis etc, so mid to high range is pretty important to me. I also listen to tech house and minimal, not so much psy like infected - though ive seen them live in london, some trippy s**!
 
by the way what is a opamp? an attachment to an amp?
 
and back to one of my other questions... is hybrid a good thing? or is it better just to stick to SS or tube.
 
 
Quote:

 I had some brightness/distortion issues with the M-Stage at first but then I rolled in a different opamp and things are much smoother now.  .     

 

[irishsammy]

Hybrids are like any other kind of amp...some are good and some aren't so good.  They seem to be a small part of the industry so I guess most people go whole hog with either SS or tubes...and hybrid designs are kind of a niche.  But they do give you tubey goodness at a much lower price than most straight tube setups. 
 
Opamps are chips that provide the drive for some SS amps.  They all have slightly different "flavors" so if you have an amp with a swappable opamp, you can change to suit your particular taste.
 
You'll definitely want to look into flat pads if you listen to that many female vocalists.  (Bravo on the Katie Melua, by the way.  Love her.)  They might get kinda overbearing if you end up with bowls (earpads with holes in them) on your Grados.