[Zoide]

Excuse my ignorance:

Why is it that the dB at which the song is recorded, etc. matters? In the end doesn't the music's volume and ear damage potential depend on just how much we turn the volume knob?

 

[random person]

In a similar vein, am I correct in interpreting what you are saying to mean that replaygain in effect normalizes volume discrepancies between songs? In which case without replaygain you would simply need to lower/raise the volume manually and focus on the subjective/relative loudness for each track. Am I right? So that at 50% of the volume slider for the Ipod, provided I am sensitive to volume differences between tracks and adjust them downwards as appropriate, that I might be OK, even without applying replaygain?

 

[john_jcb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide Excuse my ignorance: Why is it that the dB at which the song is recorded, etc. matters? In the end doesn't the music's volume and ear damage potential depend on just how much we turn the volume knob?

Over the last few years there has been a trend in the recording industry, especially popular music to record CD's at a higher volume. There are problems with this because you do not have any dynamic range for loud passages, but that is a subject onto itself. Back to the subject. If you play a CD that is say 10 years old and adjust the volume to a comfortable setting then play a new one you will notice that the new one is considerably louder with the same settings. What this software attempts to do is to normalize the gain so that you do not need to adjust the volume from song to song.

 

[Jam_Master_J]

I do a similar thing with my speaker rig. Of course it's much easier with speakers. I just borrowed an SPL when I calibrated my 5.1 rig. I made note of "reference" level for 5.1 and a "reference" level in stereo. Since my stereo volume is measured relative to 0dB I can do a quick calculation to find the loudest peak at a given volume (from my listening position).

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by random person In a similar vein, am I correct in interpreting what you are saying to mean that replaygain in effect normalizes volume discrepancies between songs? In which case without replaygain you would simply need to lower/raise the volume manually and focus on the subjective/relative loudness for each track. Am I right? So that at 50% of the volume slider for the Ipod, provided I am sensitive to volume differences between tracks and adjust them downwards as appropriate, that I might be OK, even without applying replaygain?

You are more or less correct. Bear in mind, though, that nowadays very few albums have an average of 89dB. A huge percentage of them sounds louder than that.

 

[tracyrick]

This is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Thanks for doing this! Also thanks for using "Man in the Box" as a sample song - AIC rules.
Your results are interesting. I use ER-4P with my Karma. I settled on a low volume level 10 to be safe, but this says I can go much higher, especially under short listening durations. I'll try 15 for a while. 15 is really loud with my Ety's, but my max duration is 4-8 hours in any given day. Hmmm...Maybe my puny volume level 10 I've been using explains why I want an amp so bad. The real solution isn't an amp, I just need to crank the volume!
Even if I assume a 2 db adjustment for Ety's vs. your earphones, 15 will probably be safe at 8 hours or less. Cool.

Ety's are very popular. If you get more spare time, maybe you can run the test with Ety's, or advise your estimated db adjustment.

 

[gorman]

Alas, the test could only be conducted on UE-10 because Jerry Harvey is engineer (and owner) of that company. You could try to ask Etymotic if they are interested in conducting a similar test.

Stay more in the 10-12 range as far as volume is concerned. Especially if you don't replaygain your files and apply the replaygain to their wave form. 15 without any adjustment is bordering on the danger zone.

 

[iamdone]

I know this is an old thread but I thing to note, the ipod (and itunes) has a sound check feature the you can turn on and off to normalize your files without changing them.

I would also be careful about using any program that permanently changes the gain song by song because it can effect the way listening to full albums should sound. A full album has already been set so you don't have to adjust the volume at any point and achieve the proper highs and lows from song to song that the producer meant them to have. I used one of these programs once and didn't like the effect and had to re-rip my entire library.

 

[mavis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone I know this is an old thread but I thing to note, the ipod (and itunes) has a sound check feature the you can turn on and off to normalize your files without changing them. I would also be careful about using any program that permanently changes the gain song by song because it can effect the way listening to full albums should sound. A full album has already been set so you don't have to adjust the volume at any point and achieve the proper highs and lows from song to song that the producer meant them to have. I used one of these programs once and didn't like the effect and had to re-rip my entire library.

Well, if you're using MP3s, you can use the "Album Gain" option in MP3Gain to preserve the differences in volume on an album ...

Come to think of it, I think the newer versions of MP3Gain support more than just MP3s ... but I could be mistaken.

Anyway, I'd be curious to see some sort of SPL measurements for the Sensas, using an iPod's headphone out as a reference ... Does anything like that exist?

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone I know this is an old thread but I thing to note, the ipod (and itunes) has a sound check feature the you can turn on and off to normalize your files without changing them.

The same option exists on the Karma. I would never use it, as it doesn't sound very good (as all normalization, I might add).

Quote:

I would also be careful about using any program that permanently changes the gain song by song because it can effect the way listening to full albums should sound. A full album has already been set so you don't have to adjust the volume at any point and achieve the proper highs and lows from song to song that the producer meant them to have. I used one of these programs once and didn't like the effect and had to re-rip my entire library.

I use ReplayGain with the Album option, where the difference in relative volume among different tracks from the same album is mantained.
Plus, I rip in FLAC and only later convert to Vorbis, so I don't risk anything.

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavis Anyway, I'd be curious to see some sort of SPL measurements for the Sensas, using an iPod's headphone out as a reference ... Does anything like that exist?

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[jeffc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorman He did test with iPod too. But I still have to ask him the replaygain value for the songs he used (which are different from these three). I will publish iPod results ASAP.

Did you ever get results back about the loudness from an iPod? I've noticed that with pop music and the volume control all the way to the left, I can hear the music w/ my UE10's and Shure E2c's. It's not as clear as when the volume level is at my normal level, but it's there.

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffc Did you ever get results back about the loudness from an iPod? I've noticed that with pop music and the volume control all the way to the left, I can hear the music w/ my UE10's and Shure E2c's. It's not as clear as when the volume level is at my normal level, but it's there.

Unfortunately not and not being of immediate interest for me I let it go... I could try to find out from Jerry...