SPL Phonitor X / Phonitor E impressions and Discussion thread
Apr 14, 2021 at 10:38 AM Post #556 of 1,051
Seems like I'll be the very few defending Amir here. The unit Amir received is manufacturer refurbished which means the unit was approved by SPL when it went into the market. If we are the buyer of this unit, we don't expect it sounds worse or different than the new ones.

I don't really get the ego from him. He does his job for free and has no issue giving praises to high end products like HD800s and Focal Utopia when the number stands up. It's bad sportsmanship to criticize someone's opinion when that person gives an honest evaluation for a product you just happen to like.
The unit tested was advertised as "manufacturer refurbished", however SPL said they have no record of this. They also indicated that the unit had been represented as having the newer DAC768xs module when it actually contained the older DAC192 module.

The owner of this unit stated:
"I think it is a used unit the dealer sold as manufacturer refurbished. Plain and simple - the dealer misrepresented the unit.

It has been returned to the dealer and I am pursuing getting my money back."
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 11:49 AM Post #557 of 1,051
Seems like I'll be the very few defending Amir here. The unit Amir received is manufacturer refurbished which means the unit was approved by SPL when it went into the market. If we are the buyer of this unit, we don't expect it sounds worse or different than the new ones.

I don't really get the ego from him. He does his job for free and has no issue giving praises to high end products like HD800s and Focal Utopia when the number stands up. It's bad sportsmanship to criticize someone's opinion when that person gives an honest evaluation for a product you just happen to like.
As far as the unit is concerned, @r0dd3r5 covers everything with his post right above. I also agree that this thread shouldn't turn into a general bashing of Amir's musings; after all, measurements do represent an objective reality albeit within the limits of an overarching hypothesis and the implementation of the experiment that corresponds to it. Still, there are several reasons not to like what's happened with Amir's review on a more grounded basis. Apologies for this extended post, but I will try to offer my argument as concisely as possible.

For the first part, I understand that the whole mentality behind ASR is that measurements stand as an objective tool to assert audio quality in a component. This is true for many designers in the field who measure first and tune second, if at all. History has shown, however, that measurements alone don't necessarily correspond to a predeterminable outcome. For example, Rockna somehow managed to produce three different iterations of the rightfully acclaimed Wavedream DAC: one friend of mine has the mk1 and another ran through the upgrade path from mk2 to mk3. We've listened to all of them repeatedly over time on their own, very much comparable, reference-grade systems. Mk1 was wearing MSB modules and sounded fantastic right off the bat; mk2 was wearing Rockna's iteration of these modules and measured great but sounded dull, or at least notably inferior to mk1; mk3 with newer Rockna modules also measured great and managed to sound very close to mk1, yet none of the latter managed the level of transparency and dynamics of the mk1 with the MSB modules. All of these iterations were designed and developed by the same person, Nicolae Jitariu, who also worked for MSB on the development of the original modules. All of them were aiming for the same measurements, which —to my knowledge— were Jitariu's primary concern. Go figure. The same applies to the Phonitor: after doing some research of my own, I found that the Phonitor exists in two iterations, due to a silent upgrade that SPL performed in order to integrate a power protection circuit. While I'd guess the design objectives of these units remain the same, it would also make sense if they measured differently —and I'd blame SPL if I ever found that an older unit represents poorer value against a newer one given that they both circulate in the second-hand market without publicly accessible clarifications (e.g. mk I vs. mk II). That being said, I believe it's common practice to silently upgrade models without further clarifications; just look at the frequency Audeze does this with their stuff and weep!

Now for the second part. While Amir's methodology remains a constant, the review itself was arguably found lacking in terms of cross-checking and corroboration. Indeed, when an experiment shows results that stray from the norm, it is only reasonable to look for flaws and cross-check. On this part I believe that SPL has a solid argument, especially given that a lot of people rushed to debase the Phonitor according to Amir's findings, with the notable exception of @Deolum. Amir didn't just offer plain numbers, he offered an opinion based on those numbers. While these numbers may correspond to an objective truth, Amir's opinion was offered as an extended generalisation that degraded the whole of the current Phonitor lineup. While I respect Amir's consistency, I do not overlook the fact that he offered a public review of the Phonitor X line based on a very particular unit, to say the least. In the past, I found myself in a similar situation when I was reviewing the Meze Rai Penta: I found the tonality rather quirky while the rest of the crowd were raving about 'how natural it sounds'. Instead of posting my impressions, I immediately contacted Meze and asked if they could check my unit for consistency. They did, and confirmed that it was true to spec. I then moved to post my review, feeling confident enough to express my reservations. I'd expect a person with the reputation and recognition that Amir enjoys to have at least done the same.

Overall, I would agree that "it's bad sportsmanship to criticize someone's opinion when that person gives an honest evaluation for a product (...)" but in this case I believe that Amir definitely stepped out of boundaries; first for not looking into the minute details that might have made a difference (e.g. the dip switches which, btw, are there because they are directly attached to the board) and second for not cross-checking with other reviewers, or even SPL, to corroborate his findings. Finally, it would just be nice of him if he just accepted these missteps and offered to repeat the review by actually asking SPL to send him a review unit instead of complaining how SPL didn't offer to provide it themselves; certainly comes off as arrogant, if you ask me.
 
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Apr 14, 2021 at 2:53 PM Post #558 of 1,051
Those measurements purists would end Bernie Grundman’s career...... if they had their way.

Fortunately, people who benefit from labor of love those industry gurus produced over many, many decades, care about music not sine waves and zeros.

At the end. You can build a “kult” based system that is a suggested as being “clean” “low noise” and “linear” or build your personal audio nirvana based on your own preferences that let you enjoy music the way you want it.

Video with “crazy” people who actually listen to music (skip to Bernie G. around 5mins in):



“Use your ears”:
 
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Apr 14, 2021 at 5:26 PM Post #560 of 1,051
Do you have a link for this cable?
Got it from Amazon.jp totally fuss-free purchase, import fees included at checkout. https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B01G1572SK/

Onso Project official site: http://www.onsoproject.com
Onso Project's blog w/ details about all the experimentation behind their designs: http://onsoproject.blogspot.com
Onso is an offspring of Hisago Densai Ltd. who make their own Ohno Continuous Casting cables (PCOCC, which is the equivalent to Furukawa's UPOCC). They also got a hi-end stereo system cable line under the Gourd brand: http://www.gourdproduct.com
 
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Apr 14, 2021 at 5:51 PM Post #561 of 1,051
Got it from Amazon.jp totally fuss-free purchase, import fees included at checkout. https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B01G1572SK/

Onso Project official site: http://www.onsoproject.com
Onso Project's blog w/ details about all the experimentation behind their designs: http://onsoproject.blogspot.com
Onso is an offspring of Hisago Densai Ltd. who make their own Ohno Continuous Casting cables (PCOCC, which is the equivalent to Furukawa's UPOCC). They also got a hi-end stereo system cable line under the Gourd brand: http://www.gourdproduct.com

Delivered to USA: "Your selected delivery location is beyond seller's shipping coverage for this item. Please choose a different delivery location or purchase from another seller."

Looks like I'll have to go another avenue.
 
Apr 14, 2021 at 6:01 PM Post #562 of 1,051
Delivered to USA: "Your selected delivery location is beyond seller's shipping coverage for this item. Please choose a different delivery location or purchase from another seller."

Looks like I'll have to go another avenue.
Ouch! I'd have thought that JP and US had a solid trade relationship... With EU everything works just fine, albeit w/ import fees.
 
Apr 16, 2021 at 6:53 AM Post #564 of 1,051
There is so much more aspects to a audio equipment than pure measurement... i believe. Phonitor might not measure as well as other cheaper amp, eg. Topping A90 or Drop THX amp, both have owned personally, Phonitor definitely gives me far more pleasure in enjoying my Music!!! Whatever the measurement equipment has if you personally do not enjoy the personality of that particular audio equipment, it is not for you and move on to look for another equipment that suits you.

Phonitor has been my end game amp so far, heard a lot more expensive high-end equipment, Luxman, McIntosh, Benchmark, Violetric, Headamp, Simaudio etc and so on but they just were not for my musical taste... I am newbie to audio world but one thing I have learnt is that, review can only guide you what to expect from the equipment but when deciding a equipment, ultimately I have to personally like the equipment.

my 5 cent :)
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 1:45 AM Post #566 of 1,051
Been away for a while, but coming back to find this was priceless!! https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...w-dac-headphone-amp.21114/page-10#post-705322 Btw good job @Deolum keeping your head cool and taking the time to challenge Amir's findings!

On a different note, what HPs would you guys consider to be the better match for the Phonitor? Looking for an upgrade path from the HD600, so far I've auditioned the HD800, the Arya, the Audeze LCD2 pre-fazor and the Clear OG plus I do own the HiFiMan X Massdrop Model XX, but I'm still left wanting... My guess would be a pair of dynamic cans that can be driven sufficiently from the SE output. LCD2 sounded nice but no highs, HEDDphone sounds interesting but I'm totally intimidated by its sheer bulk!

Any takes?
As one who owns the Phonitor X and the Hifiman Arya, I can't imagine a more beautiful pairing. I am convinced given the right amount of power nothing beats the Arya. At first I was listening with dip switches 1 and 2 in high gain and was unsure about the results. After reading a few post, I got the idea to use dip switches 1, 2, and 4 as I mainly listen through balanced output. Now I can't wait to get home from work to listen to my music. As for my DACS, I switch between the S.M.S.L. su-8 and the Sabaj D5. Not sure which I like better as the su-8 seems cleaner with no coloration but the D5 seems warmer with micro details a little more apparent. I also own the Focal Elear, Elex, Clear, DT 1990, Sundara, and Senn hd 660s. I have yet to try any of the others because I am stuck on the Arya with the Phonitor X. Power is the name of the game with the Arya.
 
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Apr 25, 2021 at 6:11 PM Post #567 of 1,051
As one who owns the Phonitor X and the Hifiman Arya, I can't imagine a more beautiful pairing. I am convinced given the right amount of power nothing beats the Arya. At first I was listening with dip switches 1 and 2 in high gain and was unsure about the results. After reading a few post, I got the idea to use dip switches 1, 2, and 4 as I mainly listen through balanced output. Now I can't wait to get home from work to listen to my music. As for my DACS, I switch between the S.M.S.L. su-8 and the Sabaj D5. Not sure which I like better as the su-8 seems cleaner with no coloration but the D5 seems warmer with micro details a little more apparent. I also own the Focal Elear, Elex, Clear, DT 1990, Sundara, and Senn hd 660s. I have yet to try any of the others because I am stuck on the Arya with the Phonitor X. Power is the name of the game with the Arya.
I'm interested in Beyer and Senn pairings :relaxed:
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 9:03 PM Post #568 of 1,051
I'm interested in Beyer and Senn pairings :relaxed:
It’s a voltage gain amp. It should be fine with all these high Ohms headphones, brother. Not sure that it’s going to replace magic that good tube amp can provide but for SS ....... it’s pretty awesome.
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 9:37 PM Post #569 of 1,051
I am using Sennheiser HD800 with Phonitor X and custom built KT150 SET tube amp...(using Brimar 6L6LGA tube now)

I still love the sound of Phonitor, cleaner tighter bass and with still exceptional detail and sound stage ...

BUT tube amp just has its magic... Mallow sparkly treble.... but with little looser bass...

As a classical music listener, tube amp wins when listening to rise wind instrument but Phonitor wins when tight bass is required like Cello... loving both amp...

Believe HD800 just pairs very well with Tube amp though..IMHO
 
May 27, 2021 at 1:46 PM Post #570 of 1,051
I have a Phonitor X now, and I've been listening to it for a few days now. I'll come up with some impressions of it soon, however I have an issue that I'd love to ask you about.

When I plug my copper Beyerdynamic Audiophile XLR4 cable into the amp there is some crazy (and loud) interference going on. I suspect it has something to do with the cable being shielded and the amp not connecting the shield to the ground but I don't really know. The cable works on my other amps.

I'm listening to my Denon AH-D9200 and I thought the sound was a bit sterile so I thought let's swap cables, I've tried the Denon stock cable (SPC) and it seemed like an improvement but not there yet. So I tried the Beyerdynamic cable hoping that would work. I sadly don't have any other copper cables with 3.5mm plugs here :frowning2:

Any similar experiences from anyone here? Any solutions?
 

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