[normie610]

Fortepiano
In the past 2+ decades we see more and more HIP (Historically Informed Performance) recordings.
When the term "Fortepiano" is used, it is usually referred to a piano which is different from the modern piano. Mostly due to string tension and frame material.
But there are many different generations and manufacturers of fortepianos, including those that were restored and newly built (like those built by: Paul McNulty).
All have a different and distinct sound.
Usually the fortepiano mechanism is "noisier" than that of a modern piano, and many recordings expose that.
Those who are accustomed to the modern piano sound may find, at first, the fortepiano sound signature a bit thin, lacking in body and lower registers.
However, when trying to leave out (or getting used to) these differences, you notice that the fortepiano produces more insights into the music. Mostly because it was originally written and performed on such instruments.

The Valkyria's tonality and its ability to reproduce the sound of acoustic instruments comes greatly into play when listening to recordings of fortepiano.
All the nuances, clicks and clangs, as well as pedal pressing and string vibrations are exposed to the listener in an immediate way.
Great recordings and performances are absolutely breathtaking and provide further insights into the musical message passed by the composer.

Ronald Brautigam has many fortepiano recordings. He is a master of the fortepiano. You can listen to his complete recordings of Mozart's and Beethoven's piano concertos as well as their piano sonatas.
He recently released the complete Impromptus composed by Schubert. Highly recommended! Try comparing with modern piano recordings of this piece.

Paul Badura-Skoda is also one of the pioneers of HIP (forte)piano recordings.
One of my references for HIP recordings is his complete Beethoven Piano Sonata cycle, recorded by the french ASTREE label, later released by Naive.
Very highly recommended. Again, try comparing to modern piano recordings of the same cycle.

Thanks for the insightful info on the term "Fortepiano". Will have a go at these albums later on, and perhaps finding other fortepiano pieces.

 

[simorag]

Valkyria suits old jazz recording very well as it adds a much needed density and weight while maintaining a highly transparent sound.

Well said! That's one of the traits of the Valkyria that is so precious to me. I listen to a lot of albums from the late 50's to the early 70's, both jazz and classical, and the V. makes wonders in rejuvenating these recordings that may sound on the lean side, without making them overly thick or muddy.

The Valkyria's tonality and its ability to reproduce the sound of acoustic instruments comes greatly into play when listening to recordings of fortepiano.
All the nuances, clicks and clangs, as well as pedal pressing and string vibrations are exposed to the listener in an immediate way.
Great recordings and performances are absolutely breathtaking and provide further insights into the musical message passed by the composer.

Thanks @Axel for the great recommendations!

I totally agree that the fortepiano is another example of an instrument where the Valkyria excels. This is not by chance, as Andrea Ricci is working with recording of historical fortepianos since years, and the Valkyria is his monitoring tool. He always claims that he shaped the sound signature of the Valkyria based on the feedback of himself and the musicians when listening to the recorded sound just at the recording venue.

This is a beautiful collection, by all standards (sonics, artistic prowess, originality of interpretation).

Another example on a similar situation is this recent clavichord album. The Valkyria gets the (relative) weight and peculiar tone color of a clavichord remarkably well compared to the AB-1266 in this context, where the sound veers towards of a brighter balance, recalling a bit too much the signature of an harpsichord.

 

[simorag]

This has been my listening thrill of the weekend.

It is a recording from the 60s with a certain degree of background noise, but it has the vividness and live presence that the technicians of that era were so good at capturing.

The scale is just massive and I prefer listening to it with the crossfeed on, which cancels out some noise drone and, more importantly, some excess of lateralization.

The Bartók performance is exhilarating (what an understatement), the gripping musical fabric, the terrifying crescendos made me clench to the couch

Bernstein and the NY phil at their best.

The caleidoscope of timbres, the percussions outbursts, the colossal avalanche of music in the orchestral tutti, punctuated by intricated details are a challenge which the Valkyria took with utter joy.

Electrifying!

 

[Axel]

Apologies for the OT, but I feel at home on this thread as I believe we are gathered here with similar tastes in sound and music.
I recently received a ZMF Caldera for home audition and I must say it’s just stuck on my head, I can’t get it off!
It’s the first planar that makes me consider selling my Susvara, and that says a lot!
It has beautiful mids and stage, the tone and timbre very closely reach the level of the Valkyria but with a bit of ambiance and much more bass.
The Valkyria still has its magic on acoustic instruments that I have yet to find elsewhere, but the Caldera could easily be my all around headphones.

 

[normie610]

Apologies for the OT, but I feel at home on this thread as I believe we are gathered here with similar tastes in sound and music.
I recently received a ZMF Caldera for home audition and I must say it’s just stuck on my head, I can’t get it off!
It’s the first planar that makes me consider selling my Susvara, and that says a lot!
It has beautiful mids and stage, the tone and timbre very closely reach the level of the Valkyria but with a bit of ambiance and much more bass.
The Valkyria still has its magic on acoustic instruments that I have yet to find elsewhere, but the Caldera could easily be my all around headphones.

A dangerous post for my wallet! thanks for the impressions

 

[simorag]

Quartetto Italiano - Chamber Music for the Ages

The Quartetto Italiano (formerly "Nuovo Quartetto Italiano") was a string quartet operating since the WWII end and 1980.
They met each other at the Accademia Chigiana (Siena) and performed together the Debussy quartet following the suggestion of their teacher, which turned out as the ignition of their splendidly fruitful musical marriage. The Debussy remained one of their signature pieces across all their career, and this recording from Philips is a testament of the special traits of these highly sensitive, talented, technically impeccable artists (here coupled with a hair raising Ravel).

Their style was the ideal blend of their rather different personalities, where the depth of insight on the composition, relentless hard work, uncompromising technical mastership were the binding rule, bringing to almost telepathic levels of interplay. They were famous for playing without the score at the concert, an utter rarity for quartets, which was not intended as a show-off, rather the result of the endless interiorization of the piece, and a way to leave room for sheer creativity to present itself in the moment of the concert.

Their sound was precise, the timing and phrasing was flawless, but the true magic was that all this was infused by a warmth and a singing quality, which Italian musicians often have in their DNA, that made their interpretation always human, never overly detached or Apollonian.

The repertory they developed over their almost 4 decades long partnership was vast, covering centuries of written chamber music, and with an open mind to contemporary as well. This Webern disc is at times as moving as the most expressive romantic material in their hands, but always conveyed with measure, elegance and a supreme sense of unity. Marvelous!

They have been extremely loyal to each other during their career, where the countless hours of study and rehearsals did not allow the luxury of solo spin-off experiences, or side-projects. However, in their late period, they had some rare collaborations, and the one with Maurizio Pollini was especially significant due to the similar-minded approach to music and culture in general, and to the role of the artist in a modern society, that brought them together.

Talent, brains, integrity, passion, humility whose timeless heritage we and the future generations can fortunately enjoy on recordings that - while not being audiophile grade by modern standards - are able to preserve the intent and the peculiarity of sound of this legendary ensemble .

 

[AudioFanX]

So yes, if you really like the Valkyria sound presentation, you can get 75-80% of what they can give by using a good integrated DAC / amp or DAC with great HP out as a stopgap while saving for their endgame companion amplifier.

Hi. I have been reading entries in this thread for several months, but only now I decided to ask my first question.

In the case of dCS Bartók HP DAC / Streamer, can we count on a better effect in combination with Valkyra, or is 80% the maximum that can be obtained from such a combination?

 

[simorag]

Hi. I have been reading entries in this thread for several months, but only now I decided to ask my first question.

In the case of dCS Bartók HP DAC / Streamer, can we count on a better effect in combination with Valkyra, or is 80% the maximum that can be obtained from such a combination?

Hello! It all depends about what you consider 100%.

I have tried the Valkyria with Bartók (non APEX), the full Lina stack (DAC + Clock + amp) and the Rossini APEX with and without clock, with Lina and my AIC-10 amp. I also tried the above with direct streaming and with a dedicated high end server upstream (Aurender W20, Aurender N30SA, my own Taiko Extreme), all this fed by several permutations / looms of high end cabling.

A Bartók + Valkyria setup would be by far the most attractive solution in terms of bang for buck, not to mention its elegance and compact form. Bartók clean, liquid, smooth tone matches well the Valkyria signature, and the amp power is more than enough.

Sound quality would be roughly 75% of the full blown, all separates, exotic cables system, at a fraction of the cost.

The 'missing' 25% does not come from the Bartók amp not being able to max out the Valkyria specifically (it would be much worse with AB-1266 or Susvara), by the way.

As a matter of fact, if you already own a Bartók, you are in great shape to enjoy the Valkyria.

 

[beaverton]

Hello! It all depends about what you consider 100%.

I have tried the Valkyria with Bartók (non APEX), the full Lina stack (DAC + Clock + amp) and the Rossini APEX with and without clock, with Lina and my AIC-10 amp. I also tried the above with direct streaming and with a dedicated high end server upstream (Aurender W20, Aurender N30SA, my own Taiko Extreme), all this fed by several permutations / looms of high end cabling.

A Bartók + Valkyria setup would be by far the most attractive solution in terms of bang for buck, not to mention its elegance and compact form. Bartók clean, liquid, smooth tone matches well the Valkyria signature, and the amp power is more than enough.

Sound quality would be roughly 75% of the full blown, all separates, exotic cables system, at a fraction of the cost.

The 'missing' 25% does not come from the Bartók amp not being able to max out the Valkyria specifically (it would be much worse with AB-1266 or Susvara), by the way.

As a matter of fact, if you already own a Bartók, you are in great shape to enjoy the Valkyria.

You have written:

Sound quality would be roughly 75% of the full blown, all separates, exotic cables system, at a fraction of the cost.

It might be disappointing for many (only 75%?), but it seems it is just a fact of life...
How do you think - is it still worthwhile to invest in the Valkyria when you cannot afford - or just do not want - to spend a fortune on the full blown system?
Maybe it is a better idea to buy cheaper - but still excellent - headphones?
Provided Bartok + Valkyria is 75% of the ideal, how would you estimate % of this ideal for Bartok + other great headphones costing only half of Valkyria?

 

[simorag]

You have written:

It might be disappointing for many (only 75%?), but it seems it is just a fact of life...

Correct. That's very roughtly the scalability margin that a system based on the Bartok leaves on the table vs. top echelon systems in my own opinion and experience, especially when dealing with complex acoustic music and when you have a TOTL headphone like the Valkyria, the AB-1266, Susvara, SR1a, etc. Note that to improve over the Bartok you don't necessarily need to spend multiples of its price. With the Bartok, dCS makes us pay (and rightly so) for the convenience of a superb sounding, nicely packaged AIO system. By investing a significant effort, time, trial-and-error based on your own taste, you will be able to put together a separates system with a markedly better sonics vs. price ratio.

How do you think - is it still worthwhile to invest in the Valkyria when you cannot afford - or just do not want - to spend a fortune on the full blown system?

Yes, if you are fully committed to acoustic music. The transducer is still what counts more in a hifi system, and I haven't found another headphone (yet) that provides a more lifelike reproduction of classical ensembles of any size, with and without vocals, piano (especially), small jazz groups. So if this musical content is your thing, the Valkyria is - again, to my ears - the best option even if you don't max out the rest of the chain with silly-money gear.

Valkyria + Lotoo Paw Gold Touch Ti has been a hugely satisfying listening, for example, easily beating most desktop setups I have experienced - with the best suited music for the Valkyria.

Maybe it is a better idea to buy cheaper - but still excellent - headphones?

There are much cheaper headphones that can surpass the Valkyria regardless of the amp, depending on your tastes and your preferred music genres. For example if you are into modern pop, electronica, hip-hop, metal there are plenty of better options at a fraction of the V. cost.

Provided Bartok + Valkyria is 75% of the ideal, how would you estimate % of this ideal for Bartok + other great headphones costing only half of Valkyria?

That is mostly related to how power hungry the headphone is and what genre you prioritise.
If you avoid excessively power-hungry headphones like Susvara or HE6, and focus on synthetic music only (where the entertainment factor overcomes the reality check), the % of sound quality you leave unexploited from a Bartok used as an AIO will be much less than 25%, and most likely it would become more a matter of flavor than an objective better / worse. I am aware that this sounds like the usual snob-like dismissive attitude towards popular music from a middle aged classical / jazz loving audiophile (that's what I am after all ), but it is my honest opinion. Of course, YMMV.

 

[AudioFanX]

Hello! It all depends about what you consider 100%.

I have tried the Valkyria with Bartók (non APEX), the full Lina stack (DAC + Clock + amp) and the Rossini APEX with and without clock, with Lina and my AIC-10 amp. I also tried the above with direct streaming and with a dedicated high end server upstream (Aurender W20, Aurender N30SA, my own Taiko Extreme), all this fed by several permutations / looms of high end cabling.

A Bartók + Valkyria setup would be by far the most attractive solution in terms of bang for buck, not to mention its elegance and compact form. Bartók clean, liquid, smooth tone matches well the Valkyria signature, and the amp power is more than enough.

Sound quality would be roughly 75% of the full blown, all separates, exotic cables system, at a fraction of the cost.

The 'missing' 25% does not come from the Bartók amp not being able to max out the Valkyria specifically (it would be much worse with AB-1266 or Susvara), by the way.

As a matter of fact, if you already own a Bartók, you are in great shape to enjoy the Valkyria.

For now, I'm getting the best out of Bartók. I gave him Jorma Desing cables from the Prime series, which support the entire system, from power supply, XLR to USB and LAN, to the SR Master fuse. I play on Bartók with ROON via LAN, but also via USB, where the transport is 432 Evo Aeon, which I will replace with the top MASTER model over time. I also introduced Switch Synergistic Research UEF Ethernet to the system

Bartók operates the Feliks Envy amplifier, which I equipped with Elrog MO tubes and several TOP drivers, such as Meltz 1578 or Tung Sol. Envy drives Susvara, to which I have an Entreq Olympus headphone cable with an Olympus Ten Tungsten mass conditioner connected. I believe that my system is currently ready to accept any headphone, including Valkyrii, hence my activity in this thread.

Let's say that my problem is that I listen more and more to classical music and yazz, but I also like to listen to good ROCK. This stops me from blind buying Valkyri. I would like to add that I would be tempted to supplement the Susvara by adding the ABYS 1266 PHI TC, but I cannot accept the uncomfortable headband of these headphones. Apart from Valkyria, I plan to check out Calder's ZMF. If none of these headphones charmed me, I could wait for what will appear on the market later.

After reading the entire thread, I really want to check out Valkyrie, but I'm also open to other suggestions. I will be happy to benefit from your experience.

Finally, I will add that, apart from Susvara, I also have AUDEZE LCD MX4. I really like these headphones and they are mainly driven by Bartók. However, now, after all the improvements, I feel that the MXs have their limitations, hence the search for a new handset.

 

[beaverton]

Correct. That's very roughtly the scalability margin that a system based on the Bartok leaves on the table vs. top echelon systems in my own opinion and experience, especially when dealing with complex acoustic music and when you have a TOTL headphone like the Valkyria, the AB-1266, Susvara, SR1a, etc. Note that to improve over the Bartok you don't necessarily need to spend multiples of its price. With the Bartok, dCS makes us pay (and rightly so) for the convenience of a superb sounding, nicely packaged AIO system. By investing a significant effort, time, trial-and-error based on your own taste, you will be able to put together a separates system with a markedly better sonics vs. price ratio.


Yes, if you are fully committed to acoustic music. The transducer is still what counts more in a hifi system, and I haven't found another headphone (yet) that provides a more lifelike reproduction of classical ensembles of any size, with and without vocals, piano (especially), small jazz groups. So if this musical content is your thing, the Valkyria is - again, to my ears - the best option even if you don't max out the rest of the chain with silly-money gear.

Valkyria + Lotoo Paw Gold Touch Ti has been a hugely satisfying listening, for example, easily beating most desktop setups I have experienced - with the best suited music for the Valkyria.



There are much cheaper headphones that can surpass the Valkyria regardless of the amp, depending on your tastes and your preferred music genres. For example if you are into modern pop, electronica, hip-hop, metal there are plenty of better options at a fraction of the V. cost.



That is mostly related to how power hungry the headphone is and what genre you prioritise.
If you avoid excessively power-hungry headphones like Susvara or HE6, and focus on synthetic music only (where the entertainment factor overcomes the reality check), the % of sound quality you leave unexploited from a Bartok used as an AIO will be much less than 25%, and most likely it would become more a matter of flavor than an objective better / worse. I am aware that this sounds like the usual snob-like dismissive attitude towards popular music from a middle aged classical / jazz loving audiophile (that's what I am after all ), but it is my honest opinion. Of course, YMMV.

Thank you very much for your - as usual - in depth reply.
I listen 100% to classical music - piano, violin, cello (solo or in concert), opera, sacred oratorio are the vast majority of my listening sessions.
Based mainly on your opinions (although I have read one or two reliable reviews as well), I have decided to buy the Valkyria, although the rest of my system is (or will be) much less sophisticated.
Thanks a lot firstly for taking all my questions. I appreciate it very much.

 

[simorag]

For now, I'm getting the best out of Bartók. I gave him Jorma Desing cables from the Prime series, which support the entire system, from power supply, XLR to USB and LAN, to the SR Master fuse. I play on Bartók with ROON via LAN, but also via USB, where the transport is 432 Evo Aeon, which I will replace with the top MASTER model over time. I also introduced Switch Synergistic Research UEF Ethernet to the system

Bartók operates the Feliks Envy amplifier, which I equipped with Elrog MO tubes and several TOP drivers, such as Meltz 1978 or Tung Sol. Envy drives Susvara, to which I have an Entreq Olympus headphone cable with an Olympus Ten Tungsten mass conditioner connected. I believe that my system is currently ready to accept any headphone, including Valkyri, hence my activity in this thread.

Let's say that my problem is that I listen more and more to classical music and yazz, but I also like to listen to good ROCK. This stops me from blind buying Valkyri. I would like to add that I would be tempted to supplement the Susvara by adding the ABYS 1266 PHI TC, but I cannot accept the uncomfortable headband of these headphones. Apart from Valkyria, I plan to check out Calder's ZMF. If none of these headphones charmed me, I could wait for what will appear on the market later.

After reading the entire thread, I really want to check out Valkyrie, but I'm also open to other suggestions. I will be happy to benefit from your experience.

Finally, I will add that, apart from Susvara, I also have AUDEZE LCD MX4. I really like these headphones and they are mainly driven by Bartók. However, now, after all the improvements, I feel that the MXs have their limitations, hence the search for a new handset.

Well this changes things quite a bit Given your top-notch source, amp and ancillaries, you indeed are in the position to exploit the Valkyria (or any other hp for that matter) at its best, so it is up to you whether it is justified - financially - to invest a big chunk of money on a specialized headphone like the V. or go with a relatively cheaper all rounder like TC, Susvara, Caldera, etc. ... or get both

For me, Valkyria + a great planar covers most bases.

Blind buying is never a good thing, and the Valkyria has a quite peculiar tuning, so I would recommend at least a serious private listening session at a shop (Amsterdam?), if a home trial is not viable. Consider that I had the luxury of two home trials and just scratched the surface, I almost decided not to purchase them after the trial, but I sensed that I was missing something very important when they went away that kept haunting me until I gave up and pulled the trigger. I then discovered that what I was missing was emotional attachment to my music. Very subjective, yet very powerful.

Thank you very much for your - as usual - in depth reply.
I listen 100% to classical music - piano, violin, cello (solo or in concert), opera, sacred oratorio are the vast majority of my listening sessions.
Based mainly on your opinions (although I have read one or two reliable reviews as well), I have decided to buy the Valkyria, although the rest of my system is (or will be) much less sophisticated.
Thanks a lot firstly for taking all my questions. I appreciate it very much.

Great move, my compliments! You are in for a treat with the music you mentioned (yesterday I was in awe with the vocal recording below), but I recommend to be patient when you receive them. Don't worry if the Valkyria will disappoint you at very first glance, I hated some of their traits at the very beginning, started enjoying them in a few weeks, until they finally became a necessity for me after a couple of months. So take your time, relax and enjoy!

 

[AudioFanX]

Well this changes things quite a bit Given your top-notch source, amp and ancillaries, you indeed are in the position to exploit the Valkyria (or any other hp for that matter) at its best, so it is up to you whether it is justified - financially - to invest a big chunk of money on a specialized headphone like the V. or go with a relatively cheaper all rounder like TC, Susvara, Caldera, etc. ... or get both

For me, Valkyria + a great planar covers most bases.

Blind buying is never a good thing, and the Valkyria has a quite peculiar tuning, so I would recommend at least a serious private listening session at a shop (Amsterdam?), if a home trial is not viable. Consider that I had the luxury of two home trials and just scratched the surface, I almost decided not to purchase them after the trial, but I sensed that I was missing something very important when they went away that kept haunting me until I gave up and pulled the trigger. I then discovered that what I was missing was emotional attachment to my music. Very subjective, yet very powerful.



Great move, my compliments! You are in for a treat with the music you mentioned (yesterday I was in awe with the vocal recording below), but I recommend to be patient when you receive them. Don't worry if the Valkyria will disappoint you at very first glance, I hated some of their traits at the very beginning, started enjoying them in a few weeks, untill they finally became a necessity for me after a couple of months. So take your time, relax and enjoy!

​

I'm trying to contact people from Poland who own Valkyri and invite them to a listening session. Maybe it will work. We'll see I'm now 70% on Valkyrye because I want a great dynamic headphone. I don't write off planars, but I have found out that in many cases this technology is not that perfect.

I'll ask you a few other questions along the way, OK?

Did you connect a Rossini clock to the Bartók, and if so, could you hear it clearly?

Have you ever encountered 432 servers? Apparently, after listening to Aeon, Aurender owners immediately want to sell their old and more expensive equipment and switch to Aeon or Master. Or maybe it's just a rumor.

Have you had a chance to listen to Feliks Envy? While reading the thread, I paid particular attention to the Envy + Valkyrya combination, but there is not that much information on this subject.

Apart from Utopia, Abys, Solite P, RAAL and Susvar, what headphones would you recommend me to take a closer look at?

Is it possible for Andrea to make modifications or improvements to Valkyri in the future?

 

[1Infinity]

I'm trying to contact people from Poland who own Valkyri and invite them to a listening session. Maybe it will work. We'll see I'm now 70% on Valkyrye because I want a great dynamic headphone. I don't write off planars, but I have found out that in many cases this technology is not that perfect.

I'll ask you a few other questions along the way, OK?

Did you connect a Rossini clock to the Bartók, and if so, could you hear it clearly?

Have you ever encountered 432 servers? Apparently, after listening to Aeon, Aurender owners immediately want to sell their old and more expensive equipment and switch to Aeon or Master. Or maybe it's just a rumor.

Have you had a chance to listen to Feliks Envy? While reading the thread, I paid particular attention to the Envy + Valkyrya combination, but there is not that much information on this subject.

Apart from Utopia, Abys, Solite P, RAAL and Susvar, what headphones would you recommend me to take a closer look at?

Is it possible for Andrea to make modifications or improvements to Valkyri in the future?

Hi, yes certainly if new updates for valkyry are available we will make them available for their owners.