[stv014]

Quote:

And it's not even correct for transients, because that falls under regular frequency response.

Of course, that is technically true, but for a non-flat frequency response, it does make sense, and is more intuitive to consider both the time (i.e. "speed") and frequency (tonal balance) domain effects to describe how it actually sounds to humans. After all, for example the reverberation of a room is also just non-flat frequency/phase response, but it is more intuitive to compare the reverberation of a small and a large room in terms of impulse response (shorter vs. longer), rather than how the different echoes affect the frequency response (but that can be compared too in terms of being darker or brighter, etc.).
 

 

[stevenswall]

I've only ever heard 'speed' to mean how fast a driver responds to impulse noise, and how quickly the notes decay, etc. Some headphones I have like the Koss PortaPro seem to have a bit longer note decay time, and sound rich and full with drums. Other earphones like my Etymotic Mc5 sound very quick, and seems to not have a very long note decay, so drums sound tight and not as full... Thus the sterility and precision. I think having notes sustain or decay overly long is what causes a headphones to sound muddy, since the driver is already moving onto the next note while it's still trying to stop moving from the one prior to it.

For a point of reference, I would consider the tactile bass in the SkullCandy Skullcrusher to be the antonym to speed as far as headphones go. When a bass note hits, the motor starts to vibrate, and even when the note is done being sent to the phone from the player, there is still a bit of vibration happening while the motor winds down.

 

[Mad Max]

I always figured that speed meant the note decay.  Quicker decay = greater perceived speed.
Speed and detail retrieval do not go hand-in-hand to me.  The Soundmagic PL30 and JVC FX300 sound fast but they do not resolve much detail.  HD25 and my modified 7509HD sound faster than HD600, but HD600 resolves far more detail than either.

 

[scannon18]

If you want to understand "speed " listen to a dynamic driver and then listen to a balanced armature driver.

 

[Mad Max]

There are dynamic drivers that can get very dang close to BA speeds.  The Turbine Pro Copper misses TF10's speed by a few hairs.  A2000X runs circles around TF10 and everything else that I own put together, LOL!

 

[scannon18]

There are dynamic drivers that can get very dang close to BA speeds.  The Turbine Pro Copper misses TF10's speed by a few hairs.  A2000X runs circles around TF10 and everything else that I own put together, LOL!

True, I agree. My m5s are fairly "quick " for dynamic driver. But this is how I first noticed the difference

 

[xnor]

A2000X runs circles around TF10 and everything else that I own put together, LOL!

Must be the sound signature / frequency response (huge peak between 1 and 2 kHz, around 10 kHz etc.) though since the CSD is everything but "clean" and neither is the impulse response.
The turbine pro copper also has a peak around 2 kHz but is quite rolled-off at ~10 kHz.

 

[RexAeterna]

If you want to understand "speed " listen to a dynamic driver and then listen to a balanced armature driver.

for full size the SA5000 and 240DF are clean and fast dynamics. so are the sextetts and beyer DT48's. the hd800's are very fast as well if we're talking bout the same thing that's defined ''speed'' on how quickly the driver can pick up electrical energy transfered to acoustic signals/information. all dependent on the amp though of course on it's output impedance/damping factor and slew rate.

also, btw, BA are dynamic drivers. just multiple very small ones.

 

[xnor]

the hd800's are very fast as well if we're talking bout the same thing that's defined ''speed'' on how quickly the driver can pick up electrical energy transfered to acoustic signals/information. all dependent on the amp though of course on it's output impedance/damping factor and slew rate.

Any dynamic driver picks up electrical energy immediately - or what are you trying to say? There's virtually no delay between the amplifier outputting a signal and the driver receiving that signal. If the driver cannot move fast enough you'll see a HF roll-off in the frequency response. Also, you don't need a high slew rate for headphones that hardly reach / go past 20 kHz.

 

[scannon18]

Quote:

for full size the SA5000 and 240DF are clean and fast dynamics. so are the sextetts and beyer DT48's. the hd800's are very fast as well if we're talking bout the same thing that's defined ''speed'' on how quickly the driver can pick up electrical energy transfered to acoustic signals/information. all dependent on the amp though of course on it's output impedance/damping factor and slew rate.
also, btw, BA are dynamic drivers. just multiple very small ones.

 I don't know, the technology is pretty different.  Not all BAs are multiple BAs (Klipsch X5/X10 are single armature.) And it's their smaller size that gives them the upper hand.  smaller parts = lighter parts = quicker acceleration/deceleration (in physics btw those are both called "acceleration").  When I first tried my Custom 3s the difference was obvious.
 

What will react to changes in force faster?  A 4 liter inline 4 cylinder engine out of a Jeep, or a 3.5 liter V12 out of a Ferrari F1 racing car?  Smaller pistons take less force to accelerate and decelerate, which a piston must do over 10 times a second even at engine-idle speeds.  Don't think about flywheels for purposes of this analogy

 

[xnor]

 I don't know, the technology is pretty different.  Not all BAs are multiple BAs (Klipsch X5/X10 are single armature.) And it's their smaller size that gives them the upper hand.  smaller parts = lighter parts = quicker acceleration/deceleration (in physics btw those are both called "acceleration").  When I first tried my Custom 3s the difference was obvious.

Yeah I wouldn't be so sure about smaller = better. They usually are rolled-off at 10 (!) to 16 kHz... There's a reason why many full-size headphones employ 40 or even 50 mm drivers instead of 30 mm or smaller.

 

[scannon18]

Quote:

Yeah I wouldn't be so sure about smaller = better. They usually are rolled-off at 10 (!) to 16 kHz... There's a reason why many full-size headphones employ 40 or even 50 mm drivers instead of 30 mm or smaller.

I never said smaller was better.  I said smaller was lighter.  "Upper hand" on speed doesn't mean better, though it could.  And I agree about the roll off

 

[reddragon]

so a "wetter" headphone is also a "slower" headphone right?

 

[scannon18]

No, a "warmer" headphone is slower

 
The only way for you to really understand "speed" is to try out a few different pairs of headphones.  Even though you aren't sure what to look for I think it will be clear after you listen to all of them for a little while.

 

[reddragon]

 
Quote:

No, a "warmer" headphone is slower

 
The only way for you to really understand "speed" is to try out a few different pairs of headphones.  Even though you aren't sure what to look for I think it will be clear after you listen to all of them for a little while.

oh ok thanks