Speed reading. Anyone give it a try?

[Demolition]

Quote:

Originally posted by SunByrne Demolition, point well taken--it wasn't really your claim of 20,000 wpm. And I agree that it's not impossible to run your eyes down a page in a second or so--anyone can just glance at a page--but at that rate your visual system will not even partially register most of the words on the page (unless the type is so big that there are only about 10 words on the page anyway). 20,000 wpm reading is a claim on the order of "fly to the sun and back in 10 minutes" (it would take light about 16 minutest to make said trip.)

Yes, we're on the same wavelength on this. As I mentioned earlier, the claim is preposterous.

Quote:

Originally posted by Old Pa Avoid terms like "snake oil". None of us was born yesterday and we appreciate your sensiitivity to irrational claims. Around here, we discuss a number of topics which inspire "high passion".

Old Pa,

That passage from your last post should be part of a sticky FAQ that we can wave in the faces of people who yell "Bullsh#t!" when any disputed point arises (e.g. whether interconnect quality makes a noticeable difference in sound quality, whether boogers or fecal matter is harder to remove from vinyl, whether speed reading works, etc.).

D.

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally posted by Demolition That passage from your last post should be part of a sticky FAQ that we can wave in the faces of people who yell "Bullsh#t!" when any disputed point arises (e.g. whether interconnect quality makes a noticeable difference in sound quality, whether boogers or fecal matter is harder to remove from vinyl, whether speed reading works, etc.).

Well, they're actually right, but they don't realize they're talking about themselves.

If I was to have a "pet peeve" about this type of behavior, it would be absolutist statements made about any single headphone system component as if that component was used in a vacuum. Hardware statements are relatively meaningless without knowing the other elements in the audio chain. [At least this threadcrap diversion was back to a headphone related issue.

]

 

[Music Fanatic]

Speed reading takes joy out of reading -- irony, subtle humor, poetry are all stripped out of the text. One can read that way, but why? -- it won't bring you pleasure and won't help you comprehend the ideas faster. (Just try "speed reading" a highly technical work or a patent or the text of a law or government regulation.)

However, if this does appeal to you, why not watch movies on fast forward and speed up your music as well. One can comprehend music, speech, and movies at speeds up to twice (and sometimes more) normal speed -- but will it add to your enjoyment?

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally posted by Music Fanatic Speed reading takes joy out of reading -- irony, subtle humor, poetry are all stripped out of the text. One can read that way, but why? -- it won't bring you pleasure and won't help you comprehend the ideas faster.

I understand what you are saying, but that's not quite the way it worked for me. Improving my reading skills, speed, comprehension and retention, involved conciously pushing my reading very hard. That was no fun, but my reading skills did improve. After that, I make no concious effort to read faster, but still do read faster. In fact, depending on the material, I read at three or four speeds. And my enjoyment of reading came back, with enhanced skills. And when I have to get through some difficult reading quickly, I can handle the task. When I am reading something full of thoughts and images I want to savor, I just read smaller chunks at a time and let them percolate in my mind.

 

[Demolition]

Quote:

Originally posted by Music Fanatic However, if this does appeal to you, why not watch movies on fast forward and speed up your music as well. One can comprehend music, speech, and movies at speeds up to twice (and sometimes more) normal speed -- but will it add to your enjoyment?

I think you've carried things a bit far.

Speed reading can't be applied to every type of material. In fact, in some of these courses, you're specifically warned to expect that some things (i.e. complex, unfamiliar, or technical materials) may require a reading rate adjustment. In other words, you'll be forced to sacrifice speed in order to increase comprehension. Otherwise, the details (or nuances, if you happen to be reading poetry, for instance) may escape you.

I would say that the same thing applies to music and movies. I don't think that anybody should be expected to enjoy, nevermind fully comprehend, what they're seeing/hearing if viewed/heard at higher than normal viewing/listening rates.

D.

 

[stuartr]

I wanted to comment on Habib talking about reading Chinese far more quickly than English. this is perfectly normal. I have had the same experience with Japanese, and I am not even a native speaker -- nor even all that good of a reader. BUT, if I know the characters, things go incredibly fast. This is because meaning is conveyed visually instead of phonetically. In other words, what they try to teach you in english speed reading courses, you have built into the very language...and the fact that the characters are usually easier to tell apart than for example "affect" and "effect". I would imagine that Chinese is even faster than Japanese, which is partially phonetic. The true test is watching people read newspapers, books and manga on the train. They will read a two inch thick manga in a matter of an hour.

Anyway, as for my english reading, I am horrendously slow, but I retain it nearly perfectly. This is the only thing that saves me in grad school -- we get over a thousand pages a week, of which I probably get 250 done. I have to be selective, but what I get done I have total mastery of....
I also agree Music Fanatic -- if it is anything that you are reading for fun, then speed reading kills it.

 

[wallijonn]

Jbroad572,

I bought the software program, Eye-Q, for $170. Basically it strengthens the eye muscles so that you can read more words at a glance.

Let me put it to you this way -if you are in school, you SHOULD take it. It'll help with the home work. Sure, tech manuals are boring, but for a lot of other subjects they should help immensely.

The problem is not that you may read slowly - the problem may be that you read so slowly that thoughts come into your head while you are reading. (Lack of concentration). Many people do not retain what they read because they read the words and cannot envision a scene at the same time. We were taught "Jack and Jill went up the hill," instead of "SEE jack and Jill going up the hill."

If this course can strengthen your eyes so that you see more of the page at the same time, can make you read so fast that you have no extraneous thoughts, and can help you to envision what you are reading (translating from words to pictures), then go for it. If you can read a whole paragraph and still be able to remember the first sentence, and the second, and the third, until you can recall the whole paragraph, then it will probably be a godsend for your studies.

I feel that speed reading should be taught starting in high school.

Sure, you'll have problems later on reading slowly, but over time you should be able to enoy the falvour of the writer, the essence of his writing style.

Think of music - do you listen to every note? Probably not. But that is how we are taught to read, never remembering the begging nor anticipating the future. We are so stuck in the present that we can't anticipate what is about to be read. We forget what we have read or heard. If you read music you have to be able to read the notes ahead, just as you anticipate an offramp while driving. You do not wait until you are at the ramp to decide to take it or not.

Reading is no different.

Anyone have a copy of "Zot!"? It's about a boy who finds an amulet which bestows him with magical powers. It is the best written book which I have read in my lifetime. Columbia pictures produced a film, but it didn't come anywhere near the literary style of the book. I'm serious. I'm looking to buy that book, again.

If you can read a book like Star Wars and envision it just as if you were seeing the film - you're there.

I say, DO IT!

 

[halcyon]

What an interesting discussion

I have two books on speed reading and have practised with both.

Both try to teach to read faster first by trying to overcome sub-vocalization (as they explain it) and then moving to teach real speed reading.

I say I must agree with SunByrne in that be cautious.

Human physical vision limits (area of accurate vision, temporal integration time, saccade limits, etc) do come to play and they are impossible to break, unless one has alien anatomy

Also, photographic memory for pages of text has very little use in terms of learning or semantic coding. It's merely shapes on a page and even at that, this skill is very rare and not without controversy.

However, most languages, has a lot of redundancy in it, both on letter, word and sentence (i.e. largest chunk of meaningful content in this list) level. This means that one can skip quite a lot of words, sometimes even sentences and still comprehend a lot of the material. Of course, guarantees are not given, if you miss negatives, conditionals or other important words/sentences.

However, this is still skimming as the accuracy and/or speed go down once you change into a non-layman text with high degree of semantic distinction between words and very little repetition.

Still, I don't think speed reading (as skimming, or just trying to improve one's reading speed while retaining comprehension) is necessarily a bad thing to exercise.

Why?

Because it makes you concentrate more and focuses attention. This alone is good for reading.

But do remember, that initial superficial comprehension and learning are not equal.

Actually remembering and understanding the ramifications of what one has read takes time, practise, experience and even re-reading (sometimes several times). This is very hard to speed up

Best regards,
halcyon

 

[SptsNaz]

I remember reading somewhere that one of the presidents read a book before breakfast every day. I think it might have been FDR (correct me if I'm wrong). It was said that he read ONE WHOLE paragraph at a time (at one glance).

Personally I've tried several books and I can read with comprehension at around 500-600. I usually read a bit slower though because I must take in everything considering I'm still being tested on the material in school. Practice makes perfect. If you practice an hour a day for a year you'll probably be reading close to 1500 wpm by the end of the year. I can assure you that. Most of it has to do with the developement of the eye muscles and abolishing subvocalization (obviously).

 

[Bolt San]

I can read books that aren't complicated extremely fast.
We're talking like, a page every two to three seconds.
I didn't learn how to read through the schools though, my parents taught me, and that might mean something.
I can read stuff like Dickens just as fast, but my brain skips over some of the details, so I prefer reading that stuff normally.

 

[Sczervok]

I don't know, but I just got a feel some of us are BSing some extreme reading rates just to impress people.

1000 wpm? That's a nice 16 words a second you're going there...
2-3 page a second? I could do that, but all the words would be a blur at the movement of my eyes. And render any recognition of the words impossible.

I read fast. Really fast. Extremely fast. Like, world record fast. And I manage to retain every single detail. For about 1 second. By 2 seconds, half the information is gone. And by the 3 second mark, my brain usually decides "aw hell, I don't need to remember this crap" and anything older than 4 seconds is completely erased from my head. At around 200, 180 wpm, I can remember everything that I read. But I don't usually do that unless I am trying to study for something, or I am trying to enjoy something. Usually, for news, boring school stuff, and forums, I just speed read, forget about most of the stuff, and just retain the main, general point of the entire read. Sometimes, I'll run across something interesting, and in the one second of "should I? should I not? oh hell, we'll flip a coin over this" I'll decide to back up, and slowly scan it to get an imprint of the phrase in my head. From there, I can either go over that phrase about 10 times in my head to keep it there for another 15 minutes, or I can go over it about 100 times to keep it for the rest of the year. I usually do 5 times.

Would reading faster be useful? Well, I would think it to be. It stretches your mind, forcing you to go faster, think faster. But adverse effects can also result... which do include the ability to go in depth on stuff you have read. To find the meaning hidden beneath. This is why, you should just about never read literature fast... unless you were forced to. Literature is one of the best things to help increase your wisdom, because you think in more complex ways.

I don't know, but I was sorta thinking about this analogy... don't know how it applies, but whatever.

"There are two types of champions in martial arts. One kind, tends to be young, fast, energetic, lively... this kind wins by being fast, being versatile, not being caught, and keeping the opponent dazed and confused by his brutal speed. The other kind, tends to be very wise, and mature of brain, like someone who has seen too much of life. This kind stays calm, and keeps a clear head, expending as little energy as possible to effectively, and completely evade the opponents attacks. They see through the outside of their opponent to the very inner self of that person, and finds the way to bring them to the ground in one simple move, while drinking coffee at the same time."

 

[chiefroastbeef]

studies have shown speed readings attracts more women




















just kidding