[jamishmo]

Hey,

I just got a beautifuly modified Rega turntable, from "Raddgear," the Canadian who custom modifies Regas. However, when I popped it on today, I could tell that my 33's are slightly off speed. They sound about one "whole step" down, in terms of speed. Basically, one key. I counted the rotations, and I was getting about 34 or 35 in one minute, which doesn't make sense, because the music sounds slower than my CDs. I may be miscounting slightly, but regardless, it's definitely in the 33 range. So what's the deal? I really hope the motor isn't bad...I'm hoping it means I either need a new belt, my belt isn't on properly, or my mat is slipping (my mat slips a little, it's not rubber). So what's the diagnosis for a turntable that makes the music sound slightly slower than it should be?

Also, I can't align the tonearm perfectly. I used a Denison Protractor/Alignment tool, and it's about an inch off, and there's no adjusting the position of the arm itself on the 'table, and the cartridge is a far as it can go on the headshell. Are there any good tonearms that you guys can recommend that are adjustable, as in back and forth? Or should I try different cartridge and headshell combinations? Does it hurt the vinyl to play it with a improperly alligned cartidge?

Thanks for your help!

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamishmo Hey, I just got a beautifuly modified Rega turntable, from "Raddgear," the Canadian who custom modifies Regas. However, when I popped it on today, I could tell that my 33's are slightly off speed. They sound about one "whole step" down, in terms of speed. Basically, one key. I counted the rotations, and I was getting about 34 or 35 in one minute, which doesn't make sense, because the music sounds slower than my CDs. I may be miscounting slightly, but regardless, it's definitely in the 33 range. So what's the deal? I really hope the motor isn't bad...I'm hoping it means I either need a new belt, my belt isn't on properly, or my mat is slipping (my mat slips a little, it's not rubber). So what's the diagnosis for a turntable that makes the music sound slightly slower than it should be?

It sounds like you need a new belt. Don't know by what method you were counting the revs but the best way is to get a strobe disc. You can download one here
http://www.soundexchangehouston.com/table/strobe.html
and simply print it out and check the speed.
Sometimes belt-drive turntables can run ever so slightly faster or slower even when working perfectly but it shouldn't be as noticable as you describe unless you are blessed with perfect pitch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamishmo Also, I can't align the tonearm perfectly. I used a Denison Protractor/Alignment tool, and it's about an inch off, and there's no adjusting the position of the arm itself on the 'table, and the cartridge is a far as it can go on the headshell. Are there any good tonearms that you guys can recommend that are adjustable, as in back and forth? Or should I try different cartridge and headshell combinations?

This sounds more worrying. Don't know this Raddgear you mention but the Rega should have either an RB200,RB250 or RB300 tonearm depending on the year of manufacture. Some American models also seem to have had Grace tonearms fitted. All of these are very good tonearms so unless its got something else fitted wrongly I wouldn't suspect any problems here.

Without more info on your particular model it's difficult to help but the arm geometry should be pretty idiot-proof on a Rega deck.
It's also very possible that either Mr Raddgear has made a bollox of it somehow or else you may not be measuring it right.

Can you post some photos of your deck and maybe an arial view of the tonearm misalignment you mention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamishmo Does it hurt the vinyl to play it with a improperly alligned cartidge? Thanks for your help!

It most certainly does. Don't use the deck unless you are confident it's set up right or else you'll gouge great holes in your grooves and destroy your records.

 

[jamishmo]

Hey memepool, thanks for replying.

(1) Yeah, I guess I'll try different belts to correct the speed issue.

(2)The tonearm is a Sedco(?) "Sparta," I believe. The problem is that there is no way to adjust it forward. Check out the photos and let me know what you think. I need to be able to move the cartridge about an inch forward, and there's no way to do that on this turntable/tonearm combination. Is there a tonearm that adjusts forward? I'd prefer not to have to alter the physical construction of the turntable base to be able to move it forward.

 

[Sugano-san]

This does not look like a Rega tt at all.

 

[jamishmo]

It's highly modified. Basically, new base, paint job and tonearm.

 

[Sugano-san]

If you can't adjust the thing properly it's no use keeping it. I say send it back.

 

[Garbz]

there's nothing rega about it. The only thing they've kept is the motor if that! The rega arms are fantastic I personally wouldn't trade them for anything! I'm questioning that upgrade

 

[memepool]

I seem to vaguely remember Rega did make a high-end table which looked a bit like this. Either way it looks better than any Rega I've ever used so I would try to fix it up. How much did you pay?

Get the belt tension right first. Steve at Turntablebasics.com will be able to advise you and will send you a variety of different belts to get the speed spot on. Maybe the current one is worn? If it's running consistently
slow then that would be my diagnosis.

The Tonearm looks pretty interesting but I can't really see from the pictures whether its correctly set up or not. Can you take a pic form above when you are trying to aligne the stylus with a protractor? I am assuming that you are saying that the tip of the tonearm doesn't overhang the spindle and is an inch short to mount the stylus so that it matches with an alignment protractor.

What you really need to do is to find a mounting template for this tonearm and see if the current armboard mounting hole is the correct distance from the spindle.

If it isn't, which is what your experience seems to suggest, then you need to get a new armboard cut for this arm or else get a new arm which you can find a mounting template for and cut an armboard for that arm.
The current one looks like a metal plate so you would need to find out if you can redrill this.

Alternatively if the headshell is removable a longer headshell may also simply fix the problem.

This turntable is very versatile, by the looks of it, because it can take several tonearms which sometimes people have in order to play 78's or Mono records without the need for removable tonearm headshells.

Raddgear should be able to answer these questions? and supply a new tonearm plate. Http://www.rega.co.uk may also be able to help.

The hardest most expensive part of a turntable to get right is the bearing assembly and plinth so if these are good, which they look in the pictures, getting a new motor if necessary or a new tonearm mount will be worthwhile.

 

[jamishmo]

Thanks again Memepool, your comments are always helpful. I've contacted the builder of the turntable, and this is what he said about the alignment:

Here is the Spec. of the Syntec Sparta broadcast T/A
Overall Length…310mm
Effective Length…220mm
Over hang…15mm
Latral bal…YES
Tracking error…+4deg.– 1deg.
Rang of cartridge weight empty…4-14gr
That arm hole is also set for the Rega arms which has
The same set up for the Sparta Arms that you have.

Notice the over hangs…15mm (from stylus tip to the center of the platter.) I am not sure how the protractor got the difference. For me the most effective computation is base on the over hang. I Always base it from the over hang. Now the protractor is giving more than 15mm overhang which is the correct specs. For that tonearm, the protractor is wrong.
Now if you still want to move it forward, re drilling is the normal option...

So that's that. I think I may just machine myself a custom, extra-long headshell.

 

[jamishmo]

By the way Garbz, it's not really an "upgrade." The base is supposedly, but the Sparta tonearm is definitely a downgrade. It's a great turntable, but it's more of a "work of art" than your standard Rega. I only paid $350 for it, so it's more of a modified Rega, and the tonearm is a major downgrade (but it saves me some money, so when I can afford it, I'll buy an actual Rega tonearm).

 

[Garbz]

Ahhh all clear now

. Well I hope you get it working.

 

[bigshot]

What hifi nuts used to call "Frankenphonos" are now called "modded"!

I guess at $350, you can afford to pour more money into it. (I'd return it and get something that works, myself...)

See ya
Steve

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamishmo Thanks again Memepool, your comments are always helpful. I've contacted the builder of the turntable, and this is what he said about the alignment: Here is the Spec. of the Syntec Sparta broadcast T/A Overall Length…310mm Effective Length…220mm Over hang…15mm Latral bal…YES Tracking error…+4deg.– 1deg. Rang of cartridge weight empty…4-14gr That arm hole is also set for the Rega arms which has The same set up for the Sparta Arms that you have. Notice the over hangs…15mm (from stylus tip to the center of the platter.) I am not sure how the protractor got the difference. For me the most effective computation is base on the over hang. I Always base it from the over hang. Now the protractor is giving more than 15mm overhang which is the correct specs. For that tonearm, the protractor is wrong. Now if you still want to move it forward, re drilling is the normal option... So that's that. I think I may just machine myself a custom, extra-long headshell.

He seems to be suggesting that the Sparta arm has the same specs as the Rega which is not so and also neglects to mention what mounting distance the arm requires which is the information you really need. This guy sounds more like a salesman manipulating figures than someone who mods turntables.

The Origin Live website at http://www.tonearm.co.uk/tonearm.htm gives you all the specs on the their OL1 which is an OEM Rega RB250

Effective length
240 mm

Overhang
17.24 mm

Offset angle
23 degrees

Mounting distance: platter centre to arm hole centre
223 mm

Diameter of mounting hole
24 - 25 mm

Size of base mounting nut
32mm A/F (across flats)

Maximum armboard thickness
27mm


...etc


I would make sure that the centre of the tonearm mounting hole to the spindle conforms to this, but the discrepancy of effective length seems born out by your observations.

You have to ask yourself, what kind of competant person would modify a turntable and design the arm mounts so that it makes it very difficult to mount any conventional tonearm.

My guess is that the Rega arm was removed and sold separately and this arm was fitted because it looks nice enough just to shift the deck to some unsupecting punter.

however all that said if you are upto stuff like machining your own headshell then getting this up and running should be a piece of cake and for 350USD it's not a bad looking deck.

Check ebay for a longer headshell as there are many different makes and models of all different sizes going around. look for something fairly low mass as this arm is low to medium and then look for a cart which matches like a
Shure.

 

[jamishmo]

Yeah, the diference in the distance between the Rega tonearm and the Sparta is exactly the length I need to get the cartridge alligned properly...2cm. I guess I'll machine the headshell for the Sparta for now, and then buy the Rega tonearm when I can in a few months.

 

[memepool]

This Sparta arm aroused my curiousity. Turns out that Sparta was an American manufacturer of Broadcast turntables similar to Rek-O-Kut. Here is a link to an example in the collection of Stefano Pasini http://www.stefanopasini.it/My%20Tur...parta-Main.htm, who has at least one of every great vintage turntable ever made by the looks of it.

You got the thin end of the wedge there, I think, as the Sparta Turntable looks like a serious piece of kit. Perhaps you should write to Stefano and see if he is interested in your tonearm as it looks in very nice condition compared to the one he has. Who knows perhaps he will give you a decent amount towards the Rega arm.