[Gamingfreak977]

Hi, I've been an avid user of headphones for quite some time now and am currently using an O2/ODAC combo paired with Philips Fidellio X1s and I adore it but I'm now starting to seriously look into getting a good speaker setup as well.
 
I purchased a Creek CAS 4140 amp along with some Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelf speakers and was pretty excited to get it all setup with my ODAC as the source. It sounded awful. Massive distortion and the bass overpowered everything else by far. I believe the amp was damaged somehow or maybe I hooked it up wrong but I don't think so. On top of that the store I bought it from overcharged me so I will be returning both in the next couple of weeks so I have time now to do some proper research on what I should be buying.
 
If it were headphones I know exactly what I would be looking for but when it comes to speakers I really have no idea so I hope you guys could give me some recommendations.
 
From what I've read about the speakers I purchased they get very positive feedback so I'm considering getting them again but for the right price and not the inflated price of the store I bought them from.
 
I think I'd like to stick with bookshelf speakers over powered speakers as I would be able to use them in different setups in the future and I like that flexibility.
 
I have a budget of about $500 Canadian but there might be a little wiggle room in there if there is a significant increase in performance. I'm looking for very clean sound with bass that's not overpowering. I'd like to purchase them within Canada if possible as the exchange rate is extremely bad right now and import tax would cut my budget down massively.
 
Thanks for any recommendations guys.

 

[almo89]

I currently use Audio Engine A5+. They sound really musical and fun. They are powered, but it fits within the $500 budget and they sound great for a desktop PC setup. I run passive speakers for my home theatre, but I like using powered speakers for the PC. You should also take a look at Kanto speakers. I believe they Canadian and I've demoed the Kanto Yu5's at London Drugs before and they sound great. If you really want passive speakers, Audio Engine and Kanto both have them. You should give them a look. 

 

[jcn3]

agreed that that audioengine 5+ are a great choice for the price for desktop applications -- they're also flexible enough to be used as stand-mounted speakers in a smaller room.
 
don't let powered speakers bother you -- you've got to have an amp somewhere and in the speakers as a super-convenient place for them!

 

[branislav]

I just put together Audioengine a5+, with the audioengine dac/head amp, upgraded the cheap radioshack cables that came with it, put it on Isoacoustics stands, use Essence of Music cd cleaner and it sounds fantastic. I used to have interconnects that cost more than this entire system, so there's a lot of bang for the buck with this set up.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I purchased a Creek CAS 4140 amp along with some Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelf speakers and was pretty excited to get it all setup with my ODAC as the source. It sounded awful. Massive distortion and the bass overpowered everything else by far. I believe the amp was damaged somehow or maybe I hooked it up wrong but I don't think so. On top of that the store I bought it from overcharged me so I will be returning both in the next couple of weeks so I have time now to do some proper research on what I should be buying.
 

 

Is your ODAC the stand-alone version, or the one-chassis ODAC+O2? If it's the latter, just to cover the bases, it has the RCA lineout in the rear, right?

 

----

 

Apart from that I'd be much more inclined to just get powered speakers, and then maybe some kind of passive attenuator. This way there's one less large chunk for clutter as the amps are built into the speakers. That said, preferably your headphone amplifier+DAC combo should just have a preamplifier output, that way you can just hook it up to the powered speakers and there's no need for a separate attenuator.

 

[Gamingfreak977]

Thanks for the replies guys. I ended up heading to the US this weekend and while I was down there I grabbed a pair of JBL LSR305s since they were on sale on amazon for $99 each which seemed like a steal to me. I set them up this morning and they sound fantastic to my ears and I won't feel the need to upgrade for a little bit.
 
I did check out some of the more expensive amps while I was returning the other equipment and I definitely want to get a nice amp and speaker setup some day but for now with the JBL speakers being on such a good deal it made the most sense for the money.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Thanks for the replies guys. I ended up heading to the US this weekend and while I was down there I grabbed a pair of JBL LSR305s since they were on sale on amazon for $99 each which seemed like a steal to me. I set them up this morning and they sound fantastic to my ears and I won't feel the need to upgrade for a little bit.
 
I did check out some of the more expensive amps while I was returning the other equipment and I definitely want to get a nice amp and speaker setup some day but for now with the JBL speakers being on such a good deal it made the most sense for the money.

 

I really wouldn't upgrade to separate speakers and amplifiers unless you're going to set up in a larger room where speakers larger than studio monitors would be better from your nor much farther listening position, and given such speakers like towers tend to be passive, then there's no other choice than to get a separate amplifier.

 

What I'd go with, maybe, is a more powerful headphone amplifier running Class A, but the more important bit is that it should have a preamp output so you can control the monitors using the same volume knob that controls your headphones. Maybe get the AudioGD NFB-15 or NFB-11, those have a switch in front that selects the output so no need to unplug the headphones. If you do upgrade to a large speaker set-up later you can just get a (vintage) power amplifier (ie no preamp stage) and use the same preamp output off the NFB.

 

[Gamingfreak977]

 

 

I really wouldn't upgrade to separate speakers and amplifiers unless you're going to set up in a larger room where speakers larger than studio monitors would be better from your nor much farther listening position, and given such speakers like towers tend to be passive, then there's no other choice than to get a separate amplifier.

 

What I'd go with, maybe, is a more powerful headphone amplifier running Class A, but the more important bit is that it should have a preamp output so you can control the monitors using the same volume knob that controls your headphones. Maybe get the AudioGD NFB-15 or NFB-11, those have a switch in front that selects the output so no need to unplug the headphones. If you do upgrade to a large speaker set-up later you can just get a (vintage) power amplifier (ie no preamp stage) and use the same preamp output off the NFB.

It is a bit of a pain in the ass to switch between them at the moment and I was thinking about trying to find some sort of audio switch that I can hook everything up to so I won't need to unplug 1 or the other all the time. I'm pretty happy with my ODAC and O2 for handling my headphones and from what I can tell getting anything better would be a little difficult and quite expensive so I'm leaning towards some sort of switch but I'm not sure what to look for there.
 
Is there something inexpensive like that which I can add to my current setup without having to buy a new dac/amp? Something that acts basically like a pass through so I can output to the headphone amp and to the speakers and just switch between the two with the push of a button?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  It is a bit of a pain in the ass to switch between them at the moment and I was thinking about trying to find some sort of audio switch that I can hook everything up to so I won't need to unplug 1 or the other all the time. I'm pretty happy with my ODAC and O2 for handling my headphones and from what I can tell getting anything better would be a little difficult and quite expensive so I'm leaning towards some sort of switch but I'm not sure what to look for there.
 
Is there something inexpensive like that which I can add to my current setup without having to buy a new dac/amp? Something that acts basically like a pass through so I can output to the headphone amp and to the speakers and just switch between the two with the push of a button?

 

Well the first problem really is how you get an output from to either in the first place - I previously asked if you had the separate O2 and ODAC or whether you had the O2+ODAC single chassis version. If it's the latter then that's a big problem AFAIK since even if you configured it to have the rear RCA's as output for the ODAC section the problem is that the output switching is done internally as with all combo units, or it doesn't at all (ie the O2 keeps running and you just turn down the volume), but either way you can't control the volume from arm's length. That said, if it's the O2+ODAC combo you can get a cheap, simple passive attenuator (pro audio sellers usually have these for anywhere around $60 to $100), hook it up to the ODAC output, and then you're good to go (apart from maybe having to unplug the headphone).

 

If you have the separate O2 and ODAC units, you have more options. Easiest would be to just get a used preamp that has a tape loop output - that way you can use its preamp output to feed the speakers and control the signal to them, while hooking up the O2 to the tape loop. Alternately, you can look for a DIY-er who can make you a passive attenuator with one input (from the ODAC) and two outputs (one for the O2, one for the speakers), with a manual selector toggle switch. This way you can leave it at full power (it's passive, so it won't amplify the ODAC signal) when using the O2, but lower the volume on the passive attenuator, flick the switch, and then it outputs to the speakers.

 

Still, given the prices involved here I'm much more inclined to just save up and get an NFB-15, if not sell the O2 and ODAC to help fund it.

 

[Gamingfreak977]

   

Well the first problem really is how you get an output from to either in the first place - I previously asked if you had the separate O2 and ODAC or whether you had the O2+ODAC single chassis version. If it's the latter then that's a big problem AFAIK since even if you configured it to have the rear RCA's as output for the ODAC section the problem is that the output switching is done internally as with all combo units, or it doesn't at all (ie the O2 keeps running and you just turn down the volume), but either way you can't control the volume from arm's length. That said, if it's the O2+ODAC combo you can get a cheap, simple passive attenuator (pro audio sellers usually have these for anywhere around $60 to $100), hook it up to the ODAC output, and then you're good to go (apart from maybe having to unplug the headphone).

 

If you have the separate O2 and ODAC units, you have more options. Easiest would be to just get a used preamp that has a tape loop output - that way you can use its preamp output to feed the speakers and control the signal to them, while hooking up the O2 to the tape loop. Alternately, you can look for a DIY-er who can make you a passive attenuator with one input (from the ODAC) and two outputs (one for the O2, one for the speakers), with a manual selector toggle switch. This way you can leave it at full power (it's passive, so it won't amplify the ODAC signal) when using the O2, but lower the volume on the passive attenuator, flick the switch, and then it outputs to the speakers.

 

Still, given the prices involved here I'm much more inclined to just save up and get an NFB-15, if not sell the O2 and ODAC to help fund it.

 
Would the NFB-15 be a decent upgrade over the O2/ODAC? I do have the separate units by the way, sorry for not saying so earlier. I'm open to the idea if it's quite a bit better and it would save me the annoyance of unplugging and plugging cables in.
 
If I do go that route what's the difference between the NFB-15 and NFB-11? Is it worth the price difference?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamingfreak977 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Would the NFB-15 be a decent upgrade over the O2/ODAC? I do have the separate units by the way, sorry for not saying so earlier. I'm open to the idea if it's quite a bit better and it would save me the annoyance of unplugging and plugging cables in.

 

If I do go that route what's the difference between the NFB-15 and NFB-11? Is it worth the price difference?

 

For some headphones that need a bit more power there's a little improvement but honestly it's really more for getting the convenience of having a switch to select the output without getting something that would actually be a downgrade as far as the headphone amplifier goes. One other alternative for around the same price range would be a used or entry level integrated amplifier for example as these have full featured preamp circuits, but you end up with a huge box that has a speaker amp that your powered monitors don't need, while chances are the headphone amp section would have a very high output impedance. 

 

There are still trade-offs as with anything In this case the NFB-xx would be longer from front to rear, although the O2+ODAC stack is obviously taller. Another is that the ODAC is known to be compatible with some smartphones and tablets, while the NFB isn't. Of course if space nor using anything other than that computer isn't an issue then no need to worry about these.

 

[Gamingfreak977]

 

 

For some headphones that need a bit more power there's a little improvement but honestly it's really more for getting the convenience of having a switch to select the output without getting something that would actually be a downgrade as far as the headphone amplifier goes. One other alternative for around the same price range would be a used or entry level integrated amplifier for example as these have full featured preamp circuits, but you end up with a huge box that has a speaker amp that your powered monitors don't need, while chances are the headphone amp section would have a very high output impedance. 

 

There are still trade-offs as with anything In this case the NFB-xx would be longer from front to rear, although the O2+ODAC stack is obviously taller. Another is that the ODAC is known to be compatible with some smartphones and tablets, while the NFB isn't. Of course if space nor using anything other than that computer isn't an issue then no need to worry about these.

 
I'll probably just go with the NFB-xx at some point. Since it's all priced in USD I'll probably wait until the Canadian dollar is a little better than the sad state it's in right now. Is there any real point in going with the NFB-11 over the NFB-15? I can see they have slightly different specs but if the improvement is next to nothing I won't bother spending the extra money on the NFB-11.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamingfreak977 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

I'll probably just go with the NFB-xx at some point. Since it's all priced in USD I'll probably wait until the Canadian dollar is a little better than the sad state it's in right now. Is there any real point in going with the NFB-11 over the NFB-15? I can see they have slightly different specs but if the improvement is next to nothing I won't bother spending the extra money on the NFB-11.

 

The DAC supposedly is more neutral but honestly the differences in DAC chips' sound is partly if not mostly due to the analogue output circuit. From the reviews I'm more inclined to like the NFB-11 but not necessarily for that much more money.

 

[Gamingfreak977]

 

 

The DAC supposedly is more neutral but honestly the differences in DAC chips' sound is partly if not mostly due to the analogue output circuit. From the reviews I'm more inclined to like the NFB-11 but not necessarily for that much more money.

 
I did a little reading about them both and I'm a little inclined towards the NFB-11 too. I'll make a decision on one of them once I get another 1 or 2 paychecks and hopefully the Canadian dollar picks up a bit.
 
Thanks for all the help.