[nwake]

Sorry if this is not the right place to post but thought clever science people could help...

I recently bought two AV amps Sherwood 705i and Yamaha RX-V475. But only the Sherwood amp sounds nice with the speakers I use. I don't know why? So I thought if I posted the power specifications maybe someone can explain why possibly that the Sherwood amp sounded better than the Yamaha when used with my Precision Audio speakers.



PRECISION AUDIO SPEAKERS (CT26):

• Frequency Response: 45Hz-20kHz
• Sensitivity: 90dB
• Nominal Impedance: 8 ohm
• Maximum Amplifier Power: 150 watts


YAMAHA RX-V 475 AMP (produced poor sound with speakers)

• 115W per Channel (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.9 % THD, 1 ch driven).

• 80W per Channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.09 % THD, 2 ch driven).



SHERWOOD 705I AV AMP (Produced good sound with speakers)

• Power Output - Stereo: 80W x 2 (40Hz ~ 20kHz, THD 0.1%) @ 6 Ohm / Stereo Mode.

• Power Output - Surround: 100W x 7 (1kHz, THD 1.0%) @ 6 Ohms, One Channel Driven.

• THD: 0.04%.

• Input Sensitivity/Impedance: 250mv Line (CD, Tape, Video @ 47k Ohm).

• S/N Ratio: 95dB.

• Tone Controls: Bass (100Hz) /- 10dBTreble (100Hz) /- 10dB.

• Frequency Response: Line (CD, Tape, Video) 10-100kHz.


I've heard some Yamaha av amps can be underpowered compared to other brands, so maybe this explains it....but I'd still appreciate it if someone can highlight from the specifications why Sherwood was better sound than Yamaha. Many thanks for reading all this and all help towards improving my knowledge on this issue

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[carlchip78]

I think 'synergy' is the buzzword you're looking for. Neither of those amps would be underpowered for your speakers so I think it's just a matter of complementary and non-complementary sound signatures.
Evidently the Sherwood has better synergy with your speakers. I believe that each amp design and topology has a subtle difference in sound even if they all measure ruler flat.

 

[nwake]

Sorry didn't get a notification of a reply many thx for your reply. I think you're right, I think that is just the Sherwood goes better with the speakers even though they shouldn't on paper...

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[upstateguy]

What was wrong with the sound from the Yamaha?

 

[cjl]

If the specs are accurate, they really should both sound identical. What sounds different?

 

[cjl]

 I believe that each amp design and topology has a subtle difference in sound even if they all measure ruler flat.

There's no evidence at all that amp differences are audible, so long as they measure sufficiently well (to be fair, to truly quantify this involves a more detailed set of measurements than just frequency response).

 

[jcx]

controls are required in listening tests - "by ear" loudness adjustment isn't adequate - people don't recognize fractional dB loudness different as loudness, but can pick out the difference in AB/X down to 0.2 dB, you should measure V at the speaker to 1%
 
audio memory is also shown to be poor in controlled testing - fast switching gives much better discrimination
 
and of course Blinding is absolutely required when the audible differences are small - your unconscious bias, expectation can easily distort the results
 
 
try reading the (expanded) Carver Stereophile Challenge: http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge#6EYIQMaTuP1kmmyH.97
 
it was some considerable work to get to >60 dB null - but done in the end by modding the "cheap" SS amp
 
and Stereophile's professional reviewers in familiar surroundings, their own choice of "idiosyncratic", "difficult" speakers took a day to fail hearing the difference
 

 

[cel4145]

Sorry didn't get a notification of a reply many thx for your reply. I think you're right, I think that is just the Sherwood goes better with the speakers even though they shouldn't on paper...

I don't see anything definitive from the specs you provided that would indicate that.

 

[nwake]

Sorry didn't get a notification of a reply many thx for your reply. I think you're right, I think that is just the Sherwood goes better with the speakers even though they shouldn't on paper...

I don't see anything definitive from the specs you provided that would indicate that.

What was wrong with the sound from the Yamaha?

If the specs are accurate, they really should both sound identical. What sounds different?

Nothing wrong with the sound but compared to the Sherwood it sounds somewhat "less musical", I mean that not as fun sounding compared to the Sherwood... With the Sherwood the sound comes to the ears easily... With the Yamaha I have to strain a little more to hear the dynamics... But I would have thought the Yamaha being the better amp...I've been told Sherwood make cheap amps...

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[nwake]

I think 'synergy' is the buzzword you're looking for. Neither of those amps would be underpowered for your speakers so I think it's just a matter of complementary and non-complementary sound signatures.
Evidently the Sherwood has better synergy with your speakers. I believe that each amp design and topology has a subtle difference in sound even if they all measure ruler flat.

 I believe that each amp design and topology has a subtle difference in sound even if they all measure ruler flat.

There's no evidence at all that amp differences are audible, so long as they measure sufficiently well (to be fair, to truly quantify this involves a more detailed set of measurements than just frequency response).

I think you're both right...by rights the more expensive Yamaha should produce the better sound but it seems the cheaper Sherwood amp simply has better synergy with the speakers so I'm guessing that's why it's better sounding. Even my non audiophille wife remarked on the Sherwood amp sounding better... Oh well thx for all help... I'm looking for a Sherwood amp on eBay lol

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[upstateguy]

 

 

Sorry didn't get a notification of a reply many thx for your reply. I think you're right, I think that is just the Sherwood goes better with the speakers even though they shouldn't on paper...

I don't see anything definitive from the specs you provided that would indicate that.

 

  What was wrong with the sound from the Yamaha?

 

  If the specs are accurate, they really should both sound identical. What sounds different?

Nothing wrong with the sound but compared to the Sherwood it sounds somewhat "less musical", I mean that not as fun sounding compared to the Sherwood... With the Sherwood the sound comes to the ears easily... With the Yamaha I have to strain a little more to hear the dynamics... But I would have thought the Yamaha being the better amp...I've been told Sherwood make cheap amps...

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 
That doesn't make any sense unless there's something wrong with the Yamaha.... on the other hand, my guess is that your speakers are probably the limiting factor.

 

[MP53]

Nothing n the specs would tell you what your ears are confirming : )

 

[asilker]

I gravitate toward open air (power amp and speaker) setups. Usually I'm here for DAC information.

That being said, I can confidently say I suspect the preamps are totally different. AV recovers aren't known for being transparent, but rather offer lots of control options for integration with video. I would suspect that while the power amp circuits are definitely different, you're hearing some huge preamp differences

 

[sonitus mirus]

I've heard some Yamaha av amps can be underpowered compared to other brands, so maybe this explains it....

 
This is a very likely reason why you might be perceiving the sound to be inferior from the Yamaha.  Not that the amp is at fault, but that your expectation is that it will sound worse.  At the same playback volume, you might not be able to hear any differences.  You would need to find a way to test this without you knowing which amp was being used.

 

[sonitus mirus]

  Nothing n the specs would tell you what your ears are confirming : )

 
No, he is confirming with ears and at least his eyes, too.  To confirm with your ears, you would need to isolate the ears, otherwise there are numerous outside influences that might sway the opinion.  He needs to just listen, not listen and see.