[Alcophone]

Of course drivers were installed, they just came pre-packaged with Android (an Operating System based on linux) to handle USB Audio, something that the ODAC is not going to be able to do.

Same for your TVs, there is an operating system involved, that looks up the type of USB device you connected and uses an automatically selected driver for it.

If you want several digital sources connected to a DAC, you'll need a computer of some kind in the middle, which is exactly what the cocktailAudio X35 is. Why bother spending $2K on this when you could do it with any cheap computer or just buy a professional DAC with may digital input options? For $2k I'm sure you can find a DAC that can do this for you.

Well, if you define driver that way, then yeah, you're right. Anything acting as a USB host needs some sort of driver. Just not a device specific driver, which I thought you implied.

My Creative Sound Blaster E5 has a helpful host mode, allowing it to receive audio from a phone while charging it (it has its own charging port as well, which would be the port to use with a computer). So I guess you can call the Sound Blaster E5 a computer, if that makes you happy.

Several DAPs can act as a USB host to a DAC, including the tiny little Shanling M0. You can call that a computer as well, and you would be technically correct.

But usually "you need a computer" means you need a "personal computer", i.e. something with keyboard and mouse and a display and what not. And that's not necessarily the case.

You do need something that can enumerate USB devices, initiate the conversation with them, and follow the USB audio protocol. If you're saying that anything that can do that has to be defined as a computer, then sure, stick to it.

A Chromecast Audio is a computer. An Echo Dot is a computer. Your car is a computer. My smart plugs connect to WiFi, I guess they are computers as well.

Luckily that proves that computers can be very small and cheap, so we're looking for a computer that has a S/PDIF input and can host a USB DAC.

Maybe you can accept the query this way and let us know when you see something like it that isn't a laptop or a desktop PC.

The root of my search is the need to switch sources with a remote control, combined with wanting all my sources to be reclockable before hitting the DAC.

The Holo Audio Spring 2 has a remote, but benefits from reclocking into its I2S input. The Mutec MC-3+ USB is a reclocker that accepts various forms of digital audio (including USB and TOSlink), but doesn't have a remote control to switch between them, nor does it have an I2S output. The Singxer SU-1 has I2S out, but only understands USB.

So I ordered the cheapest I could find, the X35, but as open box for $1300. Still expensive, but I can actually use many of its other features as well (Spotify Connect, the ability to play FLACs from attached storage, CDs, ...). It has a remote and even supports apps, which might be handy when the remote isn't close and my cat is on my lap. So I hope it works out for me.

Maybe now you can graciously accept that some people have a legitimate use for these, even though you don't.

 

[elmoe]

Well, if you define driver that way, then yeah, you're right. Anything acting as a USB host needs some sort of driver. Just not a device specific driver, which I thought you implied.

My Creative Sound Blaster E5 has a helpful host mode, allowing it to receive audio from a phone while charging it (it has its own charging port as well, which would be the port to use with a computer). So I guess you can call the Sound Blaster E5 a computer, if that makes you happy.

Several DAPs can act as a USB host to a DAC, including the tiny little Shanling M0. You can call that a computer as well, and you would be technically correct.

But usually "you need a computer" means you need a "personal computer", i.e. something with keyboard and mouse and a display and what not. And that's not necessarily the case.

You do need something that can enumerate USB devices, initiate the conversation with them, and follow the USB audio protocol. If you're saying that anything that can do that has to be defined as a computer, then sure, stick to it.

A Chromecast Audio is a computer. An Echo Dot is a computer. Your car is a computer. My smart plugs connect to WiFi, I guess they are computers as well.

Luckily that proves that computers can be very small and cheap, so we're looking for a computer that has a S/PDIF input and can host a USB DAC.

Maybe you can accept the query this way and let us know when you see something like it that isn't a laptop or a desktop PC.

The root of my search is the need to switch sources with a remote control, combined with wanting all my sources to be reclockable before hitting the DAC.

The Holo Audio Spring 2 has a remote, but benefits from reclocking into its I2S input. The Mutec MC-3+ USB is a reclocker that accepts various forms of digital audio (including USB and TOSlink), but doesn't have a remote control to switch between them, nor does it have an I2S output. The Singxer SU-1 has I2S out, but only understands USB.

So I ordered the cheapest I could find, the X35, but as open box for $1300. Still expensive, but I can actually use many of its other features as well (Spotify Connect, the ability to play FLACs from attached storage, CDs, ...). It has a remote and even supports apps, which might be handy when the remote isn't close and my cat is on my lap. So I hope it works out for me.

Maybe now you can graciously accept that some people have a legitimate use for these, even though you don't.

There is only one way to define a driver, and yes, the above are all computers.

There are a few soundcards out there with an SPDiF input. Soundcard --> Computer (laptop/desktop this time) --> USB DAC is the solution in this case, and can be implemented for a lot cheaper than a fancy music streaming player, which is essentially a computer with a soundcard and a fancy display/high price tag.

Now, if you're done being condescending and willing to take freely offered advice:

https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-12C...77.328563287.1556047324-1638056539.1556047324

Stick this in a cheap desktop build, hook your DAC up via USB, and voila, SPDiF in, USB out.

This one is an actual soundcard and even cheaper, with TOSlink input/output: https://www.outletpc.com/ex9462-syba-multi-channel-pci-express-sound-card.html

Here's another one for $30 bucks, SPDiF in and out: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&is=REG&sku=945107

 

[Alcophone]

Now, if you're done being condescending

Thanks for the good laugh! Also, welcome to my ignore list.

 

[elmoe]

Great, the only guy to offer you a solution that wont force you to spend $2k on an overkill solution and you choose to ignore him.

Enjoy your empty wallet i guess. I should know better than to try and find solutions for internet argument winners...

 

[Typhoon859]

People have a hard time maintaining a stoic state of mind and egos are too high strung in a public space :/

Correct, a DSP/ROM chip that can handle some kind of WASAPI/ASIO handling of the digital audio signal would do it, but nobody is ever going to build this for cheap, as it would require proprietary firmware/chip design.

What is the brand and model of the recording interface you want to use?

In any case, the recording interface I use/have is the Antelope Orion32, but it really doesn't matter. My intention was also to potentially use it with other sources like a S/PDIF out on a TV, receiver, or even another DAC (to daisy chain the signal). In any case, unless there's something on the market (or privately made and shared) that does exactly the function that's been described, there wouldn't be an actual sensible alternative/workaround, as has been strongly suggested in this thread. I'm not sure about anyone else's purposes, and I won't speak for the OP, but definitely in my case, I'm looking for the exactly described solution to pair my DAC. (The interface I have has and otherwise must use its own proprietary ASIO drivers, and in any case, it would be really inefficient to run the signal back to the computer, or even using it exclusively for that for an alternative source, to get the intended results, nevermind the latency which would be added on.)

 

[elmoe]

People have a hard time maintaining a stoic state of mind and egos are too high strung in a public space :/

It really blows my mind sometimes...

In any case, the recording interface I use/have is the Antelope Orion32, but it really doesn't matter. My intention was also to potentially use it with other sources like a S/PDIF out on a TV, receiver, or even another DAC (to daisy chain the signal). In any case, unless there's something on the market (or privately made and shared) that does exactly the function that's been described, there wouldn't be an actual sensible alternative/workaround, as has been strongly suggested in this thread. I'm not sure about anyone else's purposes, and I won't speak for the OP, but definitely in my case, I'm looking for the exactly described solution to pair my DAC. (The interface I have has and otherwise must use its own proprietary ASIO drivers, and in any case, it would be really inefficient to run the signal back to the computer, or even using it exclusively for that for an alternative source, to get the intended results, nevermind the latency which would be added on.)

I see, it looks like the Orion32 is actually an AD/DA converter. If that is correct, why tack on another DAC to it? Does the ODAC sound better to you than the Orion? It seems to measure quite well.

 

[Typhoon859]

It really blows my mind sometimes...



I see, it looks like the Orion32 is actually an AD/DA converter. If that is correct, why tack on another DAC to it? Does the ODAC sound better to you than the Orion? It seems to measure quite well.

Yes, it's more than good enough for individual tracks which can further be processed however you'd like, but for live monitoring the final stereo bus (the full mix), it's not as revealing of subtle details as I'd like it to be, and I personally don't own an amp with a balanced input.

I presently just pair the S/PDIF out on the Orion with the FiiO E17 DAC/headphone amp that I have.

 

[elmoe]

Yes, it's more than good enough for individual tracks which can further be processed however you'd like, but for live monitoring the final stereo bus (the full mix), it's not as revealing of subtle details as I'd like it to be, and I personally don't own an amp with a balanced input.

I presently just pair the S/PDIF out on the Orion with the FiiO E17 DAC/headphone amp that I have.

How do you do your listening from the Orion? Headphones, speakers? Did you check impedances? It's hard to believe that the ODAC would outperform the Orion in terms of detail.

 

[Alcophone]

Aurender has many devices with a USB out, but most of the ones that also have a digital input only make it available through analog outputs.
The only exception costs a measly $18,000. Less than one year of rent in San Francisco, what a bargain! You'd think they could afford to publish high resolution images of their devices, but apparently not.

• Aurender A30: (BNC / Coax / 2x TOSlink) input -> (USB) output

 

[Typhoon859]

How do you do your listening from the Orion? Headphones, speakers? Did you check impedances? It's hard to believe that the ODAC would outperform the Orion in terms of detail.

Headphones mostly, and they are high enough impedance that really that shouldn't have made a difference. In any case, they are the only headphones I'd want to use (Brainwavz HM5's).

Not sure why it's hard to believe, regarding the Orion. The thing has 32 times as many converters + a bunch of other hardware and software development costs whereas the ODAC is highly specialized. (Since originally writing on this board, I've also switched and have otherwise been using, and would be wanting to use instead, the Grace SDAC from Massdrop.

Also, remember that in any case, the point of the device is to be able to moreso give USB DAC's a S/PDIF input so that they can more or less work/be paired with anything and everywhere. Regardless of possible alternatives to accomplishing some pragmatic result (which there kind of isn't, given the otherwise straightforward purpose of such a thing), wanting an exact solution here should be fair enough.

Aurender has many devices with a USB out, but most of the ones that also have a digital input only make it available through analog outputs.
The only exception costs a measly $18,000. Less than one year of rent in San Francisco, what a bargain! You'd think they could afford to publish high resolution images of their devices, but apparently not.

• Aurender A30: (BNC / Coax / 2x TOSlink) input -> (USB) output

Haha, well thanks anyway.

 

[elmoe]

Headphones mostly, and they are high enough impedance that really that shouldn't have made a difference. In any case, they are the only headphones I'd want to use (Brainwavz HM5's).

Not sure why it's hard to believe, regarding the Orion. The thing has 32 times as many converters + a bunch of other hardware and software development costs whereas the ODAC is highly specialized. (Since originally writing on this board, I've also switched and have otherwise been using, and would be wanting to use instead, the Grace SDAC from Massdrop.

Also, remember that in any case, the point of the device is to be able to moreso give USB DAC's a S/PDIF input so that they can more or less work/be paired with anything and everywhere. Regardless of possible alternatives to accomplishing some pragmatic result (which there kind of isn't, given the otherwise straightforward purpose of such a thing), wanting an exact solution here should be fair enough.

I hear you. What you want to get done should be doable by putting a computer in the middle, Orion --> SPDiF input of computer, SDAC --> USB input of computer, this would allow you to feed your digital signal through the Orion ---> Computer ---> SDAC. If you already have a computer you can use for this, it's just a matter of buying a $30 soundcard with an SPDiF input, if you don't already have one. I see how this would be inconvenient but I think it's the only realistic way to do what you want for cheap.

If you don't have a computer you can use for this specific application, there are quite a few small-sized solutions that aren't super pricey that will get the job done, such as Intel NUCs for example, or even cheaper models like a Zotac ZBOX.

 

[Typhoon859]

I hear you. What you want to get done should be doable by putting a computer in the middle, Orion --> SPDiF input of computer, SDAC --> USB input of computer, this would allow you to feed your digital signal through the Orion ---> Computer ---> SDAC. If you already have a computer you can use for this, it's just a matter of buying a $30 soundcard with an SPDiF input, if you don't already have one. I see how this would be inconvenient but I think it's the only realistic way to do what you want for cheap.

If you don't have a computer you can use for this specific application, there are quite a few small-sized solutions that aren't super pricey that will get the job done, such as Intel NUCs for example, or even cheaper models like a Zotac ZBOX.

Yes, thank you. I'm actually in computer IT so I'd definitely be familiar with all kinds of computer solutions. As I mentioned though, it is a highly inefficient, wasteful (of electricity), cumbersome, and latency inducing method of doing this however and definitely impractical for anything but a single setup. I'm not sure how else to emphasize that the only solution here would be the direct one. If that weren't the case, this thread would be a childish conception of a completely unnecessary solution. It's partly why people are offended by anything or anyone insinuating otherwise.

In any case, I appreciate your considerations and time for making the suggestions, but obviously yeah, there seemingly isn't a direct solution still. It's the only thing sensible (rather than simply possible) for most applications people may want this and be looking at this thread for.

 

[elmoe]

Yes, thank you. I'm actually in computer IT so I'd definitely be familiar with all kinds of computer solutions. As I mentioned though, it is a highly inefficient, wasteful (of electricity), cumbersome, and latency inducing method of doing this however and definitely impractical for anything but a single setup. I'm not sure how else to emphasize that the only solution here would be the direct one. If that weren't the case, this thread would be a childish conception of a completely unnecessary solution. It's partly why people are offended by anything or anyone insinuating otherwise.

In any case, I appreciate your considerations and time for making the suggestions, but obviously yeah, there seemingly isn't a direct solution still. It's the only thing sensible (rather than simply possible) for most applications people may want this and be looking at this thread for.

Right, I understand what you're saying but my point is there will never be a direct solution for this issue, you've been waiting for 10 years and in another 10 you still won't have anything that will allow you to get this done without interpretation of the digital signal. Any solution to it, even building a device that could potentially handle this, will be more cumbersome, costly and wasteful than putting a small footprint computer in the middle, because it will essentially require whatever device gets built to be able to handle simultaneously 1) Powering the DAC via USB and 2) Sending USB Audio out through a process the DAC will understand (drivers). Essentially the only realistic way to get this done is by either putting a computer in the middle, or designing a device which is pretty much a computer to put in the middle, like the $2K streaming box discussed earlier.

 

[Alcophone]

I'm not sure how else to emphasize that the only solution here would be the direct one. If that weren't the case, this thread would be a childish conception of a completely unnecessary solution. It's partly why people are offended by anything or anyone insinuating otherwise.

I admire your patience. Indeed, I got tired of him playing the "what you REALLY want" game.

there seemingly isn't a direct solution still. It's the only thing sensible (rather than simply possible) for most applications people may want this and be looking at this thread for.

Yes, a reliable, basically maintenance free, low effort box that receives digital audio via TOSlink (or coax) and sends it to a USB Audio compliant DAC in a bit perfect fashion. Done.

There's a good chance Schiit will have something at some point. @Baldr mentioned working on a digital preamp, and their own USB implementation, including USB host function, I think. Whether they will have a simpler S/PDIF > USB DDC, I don't know.

 

[elmoe]

I admire your patience. Indeed, I got tired of him playing the "what you REALLY want" game.


Yes, a reliable, basically maintenance free, low effort box that receives digital audio via TOSlink (or coax) and sends it to a USB Audio compliant DAC in a bit perfect fashion. Done.

There's a good chance Schiit will have something at some point. @Baldr mentioned working on a digital preamp, and their own USB implementation, including USB host function, I think. Whether they will have a simpler S/PDIF > USB DDC, I don't know.

Yep, a reliable maintenance free low effort box, that's what you just spend $1300 on. A Schitt preamp with USB Host will likely not be cheaper than putting a small footprint computer in the middle, on a linux box, which once setup properly, is completely reliable, maintenance free and low effort, and will run you about $200 at the most. What about this solution does not fit the criteria you need? That's what you're not very clear about.

You take something like an Intel NUC + $30 external soundcard, install windows or linux on it, configure the audio for passthrough SPDiF in --> ASIO or WASAPI out to your DAC via USB, set your volume level as desired, turn off sleep/standby modes if needed, and you've got a small footprint, potentially noiseless (if you use an SSD), low electricity consuming "reliable, basically maintenance free, low effort box that receives digital audio via TOSlink (or coax) and sends it to a USB Audio compliant DAC in a bit perfect fashion". Done indeed. Unhook your screen, mouse, keyboard, and it's a tiny box that uses very little electricity and gets the job done without you needing to touch it.

Why do you want to wait 10 years and/or pay thousands of dollars for something you can already do? Once you have an NUC, heck you could probably manage to do this on a Raspberry Pi!, all configured the way you need, you won't need to touch it again.