[shellylh]

I have a Singlepower Extreme which sounds absolutely wonderful. However, I am thinking of getting a WA6 SE with Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier (and selling the Extreme). I heard Orcin's WA6 SE at a recent meet and loved it. I remembered that the WA6 SE seemed to be able to drive anything we threw at it at the meet, including K340s. Has anyone heard both the WA6 SE with and without the upgrades? I plan to use this with the HD800 (when it arrives), K701, HD650, D2000, AD2000, plus others.

Upgrades ($450)
Blackgate voltage filter caps, 150uf/350V
Blackgate bypass caps, 220uf/16V
Blackgate bypass caps, 22uf/350V
MILLS voltage filter resistor, 3.3K/12W
KIWAME load resistor, 56K/2W
KIWAME resistor, 1K/2W

I have heard that upgrades don't make that big of a difference so I am thinking of getting it without upgrades. I just want to make sure I am not making a big mistake.

Also, do you think it will be a downgrade to go from the Extreme to the WA6 SE? I have heard both but haven't compared them. From memory, I feel that they are comparable.

 

[takezo]

i don't think you need the full blackgate upgrade... with that
money saved, i'd invest it in tube rolling... or more headphones...LOL

i do recommend that you ask jack wu to make three changes in
the wa6SE:

1) put in "non-polar" 470uf/16v blackgates for the cathode bypass
cap in place of the 220uf/16v stock cap. they're about $15
per piece and the SE needs only two. this will better refine the
sound and offer better separation of notes, imo.

2) might as well put in better cathode bypass resistor too. they
go side by side with the cathode bypass capacitors. resistors
are relative inexpensive at $2-$5 per piece, and again the SE
will need just two for the cathode bypass stage. ask jack for
his recommendation. i think mills or kiwame should be fine.

3) ask his recommendation for the best resistor to be put in
between pins 2 and 6 of the output tube socket. this will have
significant influence in the sound as it is in the signal path as
well. jamato recommends the rare japanese tantalum resistor,
as well as the mills or kiwame.

i can't see these upgrades costing more than $50 since they
aren't being returned for upgrades and are direct substitutes for
the stock items requiring zero modifications. of course, they
may have to order these and so may delay the process.

hope this helps and haven't added to the confusion.
good luck with the decisions.

 

[Happy Camper]

Consider getting the extreme upgraded with similar componets?

 

[sacd lover]

I have an Extreme and I excitedly bought a used stock Woo 6 shortly after the 6 came on the scene. Unfortunately, I didnt like the stock Woo 6 at all and sold it after a few weeks. There was no comparison with the Extreme, which is a favorite, because I didnt like the Woo 6 as well as any of my other amps, which range from other SPs .... to hybrid Millets .... to an integrated amp called the Sound Quest SQ-84 .... to the inexpensive but heavily modded Doge 6210.

I would hope the upgraded Woo 6 would be much better. I rolled in a lot of tubes 6DE7 and 5U4G/5V4G etc... and I didnt come up with anything I especially cared for with the stock 6. The headphones I used were Senn 580/600s, K701s and Alessandro MS2s. IMO, if you are going for the Woo 6 .... go all the way. If the 6se truly isnt much better than stock, which I highly doubt, I would look elsewhere.

 

[shellylh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif Consider getting the extreme upgraded with similar componets?

Well, I was thinking of something different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have an Extreme and I excitedly bought a used stock Woo 6 shortly after the 6 came on the scene. Unfortunately, I didnt like the stock Woo 6 at all and sold it after a few weeks. There was no comparison with the Extreme, which is a favorite, because I didnt like the Woo 6 as well as any of my other amps, which range from other SPs .... to hybrid Millets .... to an integrated amp called the Sound Quest SQ-84 .... to the inexpensive but heavily modded Doge 6210. I would hope the upgraded Woo 6 would be much better. I rolled in a lot of tubes 6DE7 and 5U4G/5V4G etc... and I didnt come up with anything I especially cared for with the stock 6. The headphones I used were Senn 580/600s, K701s and Alessandro MS2s. IMO, if you are going for the Woo 6 .... go all the way. If the 6se truly isnt much better than stock, which I highly doubt, I would look elsewhere.

I agree that the WA6 would be a downgrade and I would definitely not want to go that route. However, I believe the power supply for the WA6 SE puts it in a different league than the WA6. Did you try the Sophia Princess rectifier on the WA6? It is supposed to really help out.

What I would really like is a WA5 LE but those are a little out of my price range right now.

 

[shellylh]

This is very helpful information, thanks. I will ask Jack about this.

[Sorry for the double quote, I messed up my multi-quoting.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by takezo /img/forum/go_quote.gif i don't think you need the full blackgate upgrade... with that money saved, i'd invest it in tube rolling... or more headphones...LOL i do recommend that you ask jack wu to make three changes in the wa6SE: 1) put in "non-polar" 470uf/16v blackgates for the cathode bypass cap in place of the 220uf/16v stock cap. they're about $15 per piece and the SE needs only two. this will better refine the sound and offer better separation of notes, imo. 2) might as well put in better cathode bypass resistor too. they go side by side with the cathode bypass capacitors. resistors are relative inexpensive at $2-$5 per piece, and again the SE will need just two for the cathode bypass stage. ask jack for his recommendation. i think mills or kiwame should be fine. 3) ask his recommendation for the best resistor to be put in between pins 2 and 6 of the output tube socket. this will have significant influence in the sound as it is in the signal path as well. jamato recommends the rare japanese tantalum resistor, as well as the mills or kiwame. i can't see these upgrades costing more than $50 since they aren't being returned for upgrades and are direct substitutes for the stock items requiring zero modifications. of course, they may have to order these and so may delay the process. hope this helps and haven't added to the confusion. good luck with the decisions.

 

[takezo]

one more thing. if you want a tubey sound with loads of texture
and outstanding timbre use the 470uf/25v elna rfs silmic II capacitors
instead of the non-polar blackgates i recommended above #1.

i tried these out recently on the wa6SE and while not as clear and
extended in the frequencies as the non-polar blackgates they
exhibit more salient timbre in the mid to lower mid range unlike
the blackgates. they're transparent and open as well. and on top,
they're 1/4 the price of the non-polar blackgates.

 

[breakfastchef]

As I generally recommend, save your money and skip the $450 of upgrades, order the WA6 SE stock, listen to it for a month or so, then buy the Sophia Princess. After you become familiar with the amp, the addition of the Princess will be much more noticeable.

Takezo's posts on modifications is very interesting, but these are things you something you could do yourself in the future. The bottom line is, you can't necessarily appreciate any upgrades if you have them all in place from day one. I think it is fun to make modifications gradually.

 

[shellylh]

Because of sacd_lover's comment, I am starting to worry that I will regret selling my Extreme because the WA6 SE won't live up to it. I think I will have to wait and get together with Orcin (who is also in Houston) and listen to the Extreme and WA6 SE side by side (in a quiet non-meet situation) before deciding what to do. The real reason that I wanted to get something "different" is because of Mikhail's recent business practices. They haven't effected me at all but I am no longer very proud of being a Singlepower owner (at least I bought the Extreme used). It upsets me and I would rather own an amp made by someone else. The only thing is that I would either like to take a step sideways or up. I don't really feel like downgrading.

Sigh....

 

[takezo]

shellylh, that's a great plan. i would go thru some critical listening
to both before selling off the extreme. i thought you were just
trying to audition the wa6SE to compare side by side with the
extreme. jack has a 20 day auditioning period. you should ask him
about it when the time comes. good listening!

 

[shellylh]

Thanks takezo for all your comments about the upgrades. I will definitely talk to Jack about them if/when I decide to go that direction. For now, I will just wait patiently for the HD800s and try not to read the Singlepower thread.

 

[Gradofan2]

It likely depends on whether you get the "maxed" version of the SE, or other upgrades that are somewhat equivalent.

I demoed the Extreme... and... while it was a great amp... it was not the equal of my WA6 SE Maxed. Especially, with low impedance phones. I don't know how the stock SE would compare.

Though... the "infamous" Mikhail suggested my Extreme needed "a few minor changes" that would require "a couple of weeks" (translated to mean a couple of years), and would cost about $250 (translated to mean $2,500).

I'm very thankful, I didn't "bite."

I'd say, you'd be very pleased with the SE... but... you may want to wait to compare them to see what you think.

 

[Happy Camper]

Go for the upgrades then. Takezo's ideas sound like a worthy effort. Find a used Zana Deux for a nice upgrade.

 

[raffy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellylh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because of sacd_lover's comment, I am starting to worry that I will regret selling my Extreme because the WA6 SE won't live up to it. I think I will have to wait and get together with Orcin (who is also in Houston) and listen to the Extreme and WA6 SE side by side (in a quiet non-meet situation) before deciding what to do. The real reason that I wanted to get something "different" is because of Mikhail's recent business practices. They haven't effected me at all but I am no longer very proud of being a Singlepower owner (at least I bought the Extreme used). It upsets me and I would rather own an amp made by someone else. The only thing is that I would either like to take a step sideways or up. I don't really feel like downgrading. Sigh....

As you have previously stated, it's a great idea to demo them side by side first before selling off the Extreme. It would really suck if you got the SE and found that it wasn't your cup of tea and not have the Extreme to go back to.

Just my opinion but try your best to not let all the unfortunate crap Mikhail has been up to taint your impression of your current amp. All the BS he has done for the past year or so is truly unacceptable and sad but if you have an amp that you are satisfied with presently, why change that? For me, the best and only reason to change amps is because you are not satisfied with what you have currently and you want to upgrade, the worst and silliest reason to change you amp is just because you do not like the person/company who made it.

I might appear to be biased since I myself acquired an Extreme recently but I really am not. It's actually quite the opposite. I heard an Extreme last August and I liked it but was hesitant to buy it since I was going to buy it straight from Mikhail at the CO meet and I was concerned about all the misdealings he has had. BTW, It was already a pre-made unit. So I flip-flopped and tried several amps from well-regarded builders only to sell them after a few months. It all went full circle and now I own an Extreme. I can't say that this will be my last amp (I highly doubt it) but I am more satisfied with it sonically than any of my previous amps.

I guess my point is, after it's all said and done and the smoke clears, what really matters is what satisfies you sonically. I'm not trying to sound insensitive but why would you care who makes your amp if you are satisfied with it?

BTW, I am not saying that the Extreme will sound better than the Woo 6 SE; in fact I wouldn't be surprised if it does sound better. I'd just hate to see a fellow head-fier waste precious time and money because of Mikhail's rotten business ethics.

Again, just my .02. Good luck with your amp search!

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shellylh /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... I think I will have to wait and get together with Orcin (who is also in Houston) and listen to the Extreme and WA6 SE side by side (in a quiet non-meet situation) before deciding what to do. ....

This is a very wise approach Shelly. I have my MPX3 for sale and today I have been listening to it for the last 7 hours or so and I think I would be making a mistake in selling it. It does sound that good.

However when you have the itch for another amp the best way to scratch it is by comparing the two side by side as you mention. Good luck and hope you end up w/ the best sounding amp to YOUR EARS.