[rally617]

I've got a pair of Grado sr-60's and was wondering what would offer the best sonic improvement for $100-200. I am currently using a Pioneer dvd through a Harman kardon reciver headphone out. I'm kinda missing a low bottom end. Any suggestions?

 

[blessingx]

Best suggestion would be to try the correct forum.

That said most agree an amp doesn't help the 60's a great deal.

 

[rally617]

sorry

 

[usc goose]

eh, i'm sure it'll get moved eventually. if i were you i'd get some 225s and sell the 60s. then later get an amp. then later get a new source.

but that may just be me.

 

[rally617]

Is there an amp you would recommend for Grados ? I've heard the meta 42 is a good amp but not sure it is best for Grados...

 

[usc goose]

i run my grado rs-1s out of a meta42 with stacked 2002 buffers and dual 843 opamps. i love it.

 

[bifcake]

Hi,

I'll attempt to answer your question:

The Pioneer DVD players are notoriously good CD players. For the kind of money that you pay for them, they sound really good. So, unless you're planning on spending some serious money for a source upgrade ($1000 or so), keep the player. Spending less than a grand or so on a CD player will yield you marginal improvements.

Re: amp, the Harmon Cardon jack isn't exactly hi-fi. So, an amp may be in order. However, you can't get anything decent for under $100. For about $150, you can get a Creek OBH-11, a truly terrific bargain. For over $200, your choices open up to encompass other makes and models such as Musical Fidelity XCan v2, Headroom Little ($270).

Another thing to consider is your headphones. The Grado SR60 phones are good for what they are. However, depending on how demanding you are, they may not be up to par. However, now we're opening a whole new can of worms with regard to choices, and budgets.

To conclude, my advice to you would be this: Unless you're prepared to shell out some serious money and upgrade your headphones and amp, I would suggest that you keep your current rig the way it is. Getting an amp with your current set of phones will get you some improvement, but it may not be enough to justify the extra expense.

As a side note, do you like the way your Grados sound?

 

[fewtch]

IMO, it's truly unfortunate that Denon discontinued their high end cans. The AH-D750's are the best semi-closed cans I've ever heard (they beat the Senn 280's to death), and I've got a pair of AH-D950's coming in the mail (!).

P.S... I've had a cheap Rolls HA-43 headphone amp connected directly to the phono stage of my preamp for awhile now. After about 2 weeks of continuous power on, this amp is getting interesting -- it's almost tubelike in sound, quite liquid and complements the analytical quality of the AT440ML cartridge (albeit with a sort of hard edge that hasn't gone away completely). Repeat after me, synergy is everything...

 

[rally617]

Quote:

Originally posted by bifcake Hi, I'll attempt to answer your question: The Pioneer DVD players are notoriously good CD players. For the kind of money that you pay for them, they sound really good. So, unless you're planning on spending some serious money for a source upgrade ($1000 or so), keep the player. Spending less than a grand or so on a CD player will yield you marginal improvements. Re: amp, the Harmon Cardon jack isn't exactly hi-fi. So, an amp may be in order. However, you can't get anything decent for under $100. For about $150, you can get a Creek OBH-11, a truly terrific bargain. For over $200, your choices open up to encompass other makes and models such as Musical Fidelity XCan v2, Headroom Little ($270). Another thing to consider is your headphones. The Grado SR60 phones are good for what they are. However, depending on how demanding you are, they may not be up to par. However, now we're opening a whole new can of worms with regard to choices, and budgets. To conclude, my advice to you would be this: Unless you're prepared to shell out some serious money and upgrade your headphones and amp, I would suggest that you keep your current rig the way it is. Getting an amp with your current set of phones will get you some improvement, but it may not be enough to justify the extra expense. As a side note, do you like the way your Grados sound?

I really like the Grado sound.

I upgraded from a pair of Optimus pro 35's and the difference was night and day. Now I want to get better bass, soundstage,... just more of the grado sound! I can only imagine they get better the further up the ladder(into the wallet) I want to go.I will want an amp to maximize the upline Grados abilities. I have not listened to the much acclaimed Senn. 580/600's so there may be another option should I find that I like them better. I will not know until I listen to them. But i do like the slightly bright Grado sound. I would like more bottom and detail. The question will be which ones.... 125's,225's,325's.... can't afford anything more expensive at this time.

 

[bifcake]

Hi Rally,

If you like the Grado sound, you probably won't like the Sennheiser sound. The sound is completely opposite of Grados. They're not bright, they're more laid back and recessed sounding.

As far as the higher model Grados, you really don't get a better sound stage, what you get is clarity. Of the models that I heard, I didn't like the 125's, the 225's are ok. The 325's are too bright for my tastes.

However, keep this in mind that I'm not a big fan of the Grado sound. I prefer the Senn sound, although I like the SR 40 phones quite a bit. They use the same drivers as teh SR60, but I use them as my portable phones.

One more thing, the Grado phones are priced such where the model number gives a ball park of the price. The 125's are about $100-$125. The 225's are about $200 and the 325's are $300 or so. My personal choice would be the 225's, but you have to decide if you want to lay out $200 for them. Be sure to listen to them before you buy.

BTW, you may also like the Audio Technoca phones. Might want to check them out before buying anything.

 

[Wilson M.]

I always thought my HD600s were laid back and recessed. Had them for 7 years but on Saturday I hear them on an amp that totally changed my perception of them. They were immediate, well balanced, fast and dynamic without losing detail and without sounding bright/overly forward. I don't impress easily but I was impressed that they could sound like that.

The 225s are the popular one around here. Probably best bang for the buck in terms of sound quality between the 125/225/325. You can find them for $170 to $200.

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=41185

LTUCCI1924 ordered a pair from them recently and had no problems with them.

 

[usc goose]

what amp?

 

[Wilson M.]

It said Fisher-Price on it. (You know one of those My First Sony things.)

Note: This was heard at a meet. I did spend a good half hour with it and I was using all of my own gear and music. I hope to do a more extensive audition in the next week or two.

The amp was PPL's PPA. I'm not here to advertise for it or whatever. I'm just stating what I heard. I still don't quite believe that the 600s could sound like that but I wasn't dreaming or drunk (no damn beer at the meet).

I never liked the HD600s. I had a HeadRoom Supreme back when I bought the 600s and the sound was dark, distant, recessed, thick, slow, etc. It felt like watching molasses flowing at freezer temperatures.

It was the reason I abandoned headphone listening for so many years. If this was the "best" of the affordable headphones then screw it, I'll stick with speakers.

Recently, I had to get back into headphone listening. I wanted to be a nice neighbour.

Sources were my Meridian 507, Audio Research CD3 and VPI Aries 2 during this first round of headphone listening.

I tried the 600s with the Sugden Headmaster and Equinox cable. It was better but still cool, distant and not really nimble. I tried a pair of Grado RS-2s at the same time and well, I didn't like them (I had SR-225s in the past and I liked those).

I tried the Stax 4040 at the same time and I wasn't moved by it either.

Pleasant and detailed but I felt like it wasn't giving me the emotions that my speaker system can give me. I want to be on the verge of tears when I hear certain songs.

I had a pair of ER-4S and they sounded wonderful through the Supreme that I had. Way better than the 600s.

So I was thinking: CRAP. That's when I turned to Head-Fi for help.

Prior to our recent meet, I decided to order the Emmeline HR-2 and Grado RS-1s because I heard they were a good match. I had given up on the 600s.

Saturday, we had a mini-meet and I got a chance to listening to a MG-Head OTL, a modded META42 and the PPA. The first two were pretty much the same as the other amps that I had tried before. Decent amps but not particularly moving with the 600s.

Uninvolving if I had to use one word. The music didn't grip me. I would get bored and just start looking around.

Heck, I listened to eric343's HE90s and KGSS. Very nice but well it also is kind of uninvolving. It didn't draw me into the music and I found myself getting distracted. (I really am a snob.)

I honestly thought it was all the 600's fault. I couldn't believe 4 different amps would make the 600s dull so it had to be the 600s. The 580s didn't sound like that. They were always more involving to me although less detailed.

The PPA brought the 600s to life for the first time for me. If I could have fallen on my ass then I would have (I was sitting).

It was a shade dark with the stock cable but well balanced with eric343's Clou blue cable. I mean it was intoxicating and I don't impress very easily. I had to take them off and look to make sure they were the 600s and not xtreme4099's 580s. There were 2 600s and both impressed me on the PPA but not the others.

I think it's all because the amp can give it the juice (voltage and current) that it needs to shine. There are obviously other amps that fit that description as well but there are a lot that don't.

So the next step is to audition the PPA and 600s together in a longer session. I have a HR-2 coming on Friday so I'd like to do a head to head against the PPA with the 600s (and a soon to be arriving pair of HP-1s). I should be able to get the Sugden again.

I think eric343 is also going to do a long audition of the amp as well and he's got 600s.

I'm a picky person. A couple of months ago, I listened to a $75,000 system (Levinson and Meridian digital, Halcro amps, Revel and B&W speakers) and it didn't move me emotionally. Great elevator music is what I thought.

I was impressed by the PPA/600 match with my gear.

I'm hoping the HP-1s impress me because I spent a crapload of money on them and it'll piss me off if I don't like them. I'll get to try them with a few amps (HR-2, PPA, hopefully vwap's Melos, etc).

Anyhow, the point of this ramble is that I had all but given up on the 600s and I was finally shown that those babies can really sing.

 

[Rizumu]

Quote:

Originally posted by blessingx Best suggestion would be to try the correct forum. That said most agree an amp doesn't help the 60's a great deal.

Well, of course it helps. "A great deal" is debatable though

But no, I think a source upgrade does much more for the SR60's, especially for the low end. Seeing as you have a good source, I'd say a headphone upgrade. The SR80 is said to have more bass than the SR60, but why stop there? SR225 is my vote.

I love the Grado sound as well and the Sennheiser HD580 didn't agree with me at all. Frankly, I'm not interested in trying 3 or 4 expensive cables with them and every amp ever made to find the right match to make the HD580/HD600 shine. Maybe I'd find a combo that would knock my socks off like Wilson M. did, but is it worth the effort? Too much of the HD580's character didn't set well with me. The Senns seem hard to make sing while Grados seem to be a lot easier especially with my low budget. You would definitely need an amp if you were to go down the Senn path.

 

[xtreme4099]

well if your part of team broke all the time ... then the senns probably aint for you... heh maybe