[Woobies]

I'll being using my computer as my main source playing 320kbps MP3 and FLAC lossless files to a headphone and 2 channel speaker rig with their own respective amps. What I am wondering is whether I should invest in an external DAC around 300 bucks (had my eye on the DIYEDEN Great March and KECES-131/151) or go the cheaper route and use my current soundcard (Creative Audigy 2ZS) to hook up to my pre-amp.

Which will provide better sound and scale up nicer when I upgrade? I find it hard to believe that digital to analog conversion is hard let alone beyond the capacities of a dedicated and at the time a top of the line sound card.

And if I do use my soundcard as my DAC, is it as simple as using a mini-to-RCA adapter to plug straight into the pre-amp?

Thanks.

 

[robojack]

External DAC for sure, especially if you're using a Creative card. I have a DIYEDEN SVDAC04-U USB DAC, and it easily blows any Creative card out of the water.

 

[Woobies]

But don't a soundcard and DAC do the same thing? Or is it because the DAC is a dedicated component it just leaves less things for the manufacturer to screw up?

 

[Seaside]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woobies /img/forum/go_quote.gif But don't a soundcard and DAC do the same thing? Or is it because the DAC is a dedicated component it just leaves less things for the manufacturer to screw up?

You're right. They do the same thing... in some sense.
DAC = Digital to Analog Converter. What it does is getting digital sound signal from the source (computer etc) then convert it to analog wave form so that human can listen. ADC is doing opposite. When human speaks to microphone, the signal microphone makes is analog form, then ADC gets the signal, convert it to digital, so that coputer can process it.
So, sound card has DAC, ADC and other processing units on one board.

Then why we need an external DAC?
Because we need better sound. Soundcard has them all in one board, and it can do what DAC can do. But each parts usually is not as good as dedicated DAC, because of space limitation and cost reason.

So...
If you need all sort of functions like 5.1 channels, mic input, recording/mixing capability, gaming supports etc, you will need a soundcard rather than an external DAC. If you say.... ****** that! I just want superb stereo sound... then external DAC is the thing for you.

 

[Woobies]

I see. Thanks for the explanation Seaside. Very clear.

So the next question I suppose is how should I connect the DAC? Through a USB plug or through a coax/toslink from my soundcard or onboard soundcard (it's a Realtek HD Audio processor).

 

[regal]

Use a quality native ASIO soundcard's digital out to a good external DAC.

 

[1UP]

My 0404 and Superdac - both modded - use the same DAC (AK4393) but the Superdac sounds miles better; there are virtually no commonalities in the final sound!

I use an Audigy 2something or other in my work PC and I can say it really sucks. Even my HagUSB's direct analogue out from the DAC chip is better.

So, as long as the external DAC has decent layout, power supply and analogue output stage (though these aren't a given!), it should beat your Audigy all ends up.

The Keces topology looks good to me, and there are many positive reviews on here. I'd go for the 131 over the 151, though - just don't find the PCM270x vOUT particularly good.

I prefer coax to optical or USB, at this kind of price range, at least, e.g. I prefer my 0404 via coax to the HagUSB's USB-SPDIF, though the difference is not massive, it's there. Never liked optical.

 

[cdingdong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robojack /img/forum/go_quote.gif External DAC for sure, especially if you're using a Creative card. I have a DIYEDEN SVDAC04-U USB DAC, and it easily blows any Creative card out of the water.

I have a Creative Audigy 4 sound card on my PC, and without tinkering with the settings, I would have to say that the performance is mediocre, albeit better than onboard sound. But, after making adjustments in Creative's EAX console, the mids are better, the bass is much tighter and you can feel the thump. I know that Creative is known for doing a lot of computing and sound processing with their sound cards. So, I'd like to know how the combination of Creative's hardware along with their computing and sound processing would compare to just an external DAC or USB DAC without a soundcard. I am looking into buying a DAC, but am unsure about these points. Do DACs have software for you to adjust in the computer? The Audigy 4's EAX console has a bunch of settings that can be modified, such as low, mid, high cutoff and gain, parametetric equalizer, etc. I do not play games at all; my only concern is music.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1UP /img/forum/go_quote.gif My 0404 and Superdac - both modded - use the same DAC (AK4393)...

Minor correction... M-Audio SuperDac uses AK4393, E-MU 0404 PCI v1 uses AK4395, E-MU 0404 PCI v2 uses AK4396.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdingdong /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, I'd like to know how the combination of Creative's hardware along with their computing and sound processing would compare to just an external DAC or USB DAC without a soundcard. Do DACs have software for you to adjust in the computer? The Audigy 4's EAX console has a bunch of settings that can be modified, such as low, mid, high cutoff and gain, parametetric equalizer, etc. I do not play games at all; my only concern is music.

I don't think that the Audigy 4 is capable of outputting bit-perfect digital audio; from what I remember, the basic Audigy 4 is a rebadged/updated Audigy 2 ZS. If you care about sound quality, you may want a new card even if it's just for digital output. Regarding the analog output, all of the sound processing options in the world won't matter if the D/A section is poor.

 

[1UP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdingdong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do DACs have software for you to adjust in the computer? The Audigy 4's EAX console has a bunch of settings that can be modified, such as low, mid, high cutoff and gain, parametetric equalizer, etc. I do not play games at all; my only concern is music.

The E-Mu series have extensive DSP via its Patchmix software, useful if you want to tweak your EQ, but only available at 44.1khz sampling rate (if you're using it solely as a transport). Purists can bitch, but small boosts/cuts at the right frequencies can help fine tune the sound if you have some uneven equipment or an untreated listening room. Who here has a perfectly neutral acoustic space and totally uncoloured gear???

Why chuck those Grados you otherwise love when you can just cut treble -2db or so? Really!

DACs can sometimes have toggles for upsampling on/off, etc, but they're seldom seen on low-mid range gear, and they're not quite as specific as mixing adjustments in music production soundcards.

 

[cdingdong]

Thanks, 1UP, for the explanation. This makes me think of other questions. I have heard that external DACs have much better sound quality than sound cards. Just looking at the hardware, of course the dedicated external DAC is better than the DAC on the sound card. But, from what you say, it seems that most DACs do not have the option of tweaking the parametric EQs or boosting bass or gain, etc. Would it be possible to tweak the sound card so that it matches the DAC's sound quality?

I have a Macbook and a PC. The PC has the Audigy 4, Macbook has nothing. I am looking for a solution that would give me good sound that I can switch between both systems. See, when I am in college, my main system is the Macbook, but once school is out, my main system is the PC. I have computer headphones and computer speakers. Would a DAC be suitable for me? It would be nice to be able to tweak the sound sometimes for different music. Or, would computer -> sound card -> DAC -> headphones/computer speakers be a viable option?

 

[infinitesymphony]

If you really want an EQ, just download a software plug-in for whatever playback program you use. There's no need to look for a card that has EQ in the drivers.

 

[1UP]

It depends. A standalone unit should have just better and more everything/insert generic audiofool term here.

Tweaking a typical soundcard to get a more balanced frequency response isn't going to give you more details or better defined bass if those things just aren't there in the first place.

Thing is, you can still use a soundcard with digital output as a transport to a DAC, and most come with varying qualities of DSP. Most media players also provide DSP. These can be coarse/crude, or subtle.

I much prefer Patchmix to Foobar's eq; it has finer controls and you can set up all kinds of chains quickly with greater granularity, but within reason, they effectively achieve the same result.

 

[Audio Addict]

I came across this and from the sellers blog, they have indicated they have not had a single one returned. I justed purchased the Xonar d2 otherwise I would have given this a try for $99.

Pacific Valve & Electric Company LILO

 

[1UP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdingdong /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a Macbook and a PC. The PC has the Audigy 4, Macbook has nothing. I am looking for a solution that would give me good sound that I can switch between both systems.

It's really just that Audigy is a PITA and I don't know the quality of its digital output.

I think a USB DAC with built-in headphone out would be give you the best bang for the buck as it wouldn't require any hardware changes between both systems. Wavelength Proton or Benchmark DAC-1 USB are pricier options. Look at E-Mu 0202/TrackerPre/0404 USB, and Focusrite Saffire (Firewire), also.

If you got a dedicated headamp, then you could add more USB DACs to your shortlist (not many have headphone outputs), and would have better quality headphone listening, but it's more €€€.