[rms]

Is there a difference in sound quality between using the digital out jack on the sound card vs. going USB out to a DAC? I am just moving into full-on computer digital from a stand alone cdp and need to figure out the best quality setup. I have found a lot of info here but nothing that specifically addresses this question. My source will be PC with files captured to hard drive using EAC, digital out via my Audigy 2 ZS to an AVA Omegastar DAC to a Hafler DH-500 amp to SP Tech Continuum speaks, or DAC to my headphone amp and Beyer 770 pros. Would it be better to go USB to a Hagusb (or other USB to coax converter) to the DAC?

 

[sejarzo]

There are several items to consider when comparing USB vs. S/PDIF.

If you are ever interested in listening to any material at greater than 16-bit or 44.1/48 kHz via USB, then you must use an interface that operates as a generic USB device with its own drivers rather than something such as the HagUSB, which is limited to 16/48.

The main concern that prompts users to go the USB route is that noise and relatively poor voltage regulation in the PC versus an audio device can dirty up the S/PDIF output of an internal card. However, there is not any single correct answer as to what is best for your system. Some people have issues with pops and clicks when using USB that take a lot of trial-and-error to weed out for best performance.......which is a big reason for why you have found a lot of info here, I think!

 

[Operandi]

I asked the same question about a month ago here: USB vs. coax vs. optical. I think every answer you could possibly want and them some is in there somewhere.

What I got from it was they are essentially the same since being digital, both will be "noise free". The only quantifiable difference would be jitter; USB by it's nature will be jitter free while optical and coax could be prone to jitter that could be audible depending on the source, your equipment and of course ears.

I ended up going with the Firestone Audio Spitfire DAC which is optical and coax.

 

[rms]

Thanks for the replys - I guess I'll try my digital out via the Audigy 2ZS first and see what happens with that. Do you know, Is the digital out on the Audigy card going to provide bit perfect or is it resampled? I'm asking because in the Creative Device Controls interface the page under Sampling Rate only gives 48 and 96 khz as choices. Wouldn't bit perfect just be 41 khz? Would I be better off with some other sound card? I am just interested in the best stereo playback sound possible and will be using either ProTracks or Sonar for some recording projects.

 

[sejarzo]

Yeah, you're right, I forgot that some of the less-$$$ options had the resampling issue......the HagUSB might not be a bad deal for you, then!

But if you are interested in recording, why not just get an 0404 USB and get decent analog inputs?

 

[Operandi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, you're right, I forgot that some of the less-$$$ options had the resampling issue......the HagUSB might not be a bad deal for you, then! But if you are interested in recording, why not just get an 0404 USB and get decent analog inputs?

Recording changes things, good advice.

 

[rms]

I just checked out the 0404 USB, was not familiar with that - looks like exactly what I need, tons of functionality for recording and playback. Thanks for the great advice!

 

[Operandi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, you're right, I forgot that some of the less-$$$ options had the resampling issue......the HagUSB might not be a bad deal for you, then! But if you are interested in recording, why not just get an 0404 USB and get decent analog inputs?

Recording changes things, good advice.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rms /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just checked out the 0404 USB, was not familiar with that - looks like exactly what I need, tons of functionality for recording and playback. Thanks for the great advice!

What operating system do you run? So far, there have been some issues with the Vista drivers for the 0404 USB, but for the money, it also includes a great DAC section and has worked wonderfully for me on both my desktop (XPSP2) and notebook (XP/Media Center 2005.)

As long as you use it with an ASIO-compatible application (that allows you to shift output channels) it's easy to use it to drive another DAC via its coax or optical outputs. The beauty of the 0404 USB is that it transfers the data from the host to the external box in block mode, from which it reclocks the data out to its internal DAC section or the digital output drivers. Noise/interference in the PC thus shouldn't pollute the digital output from the 0404 USB. You will experience a higher CPU load than with a standard Windows USB audio device....but that's the price to be paid for getting around the limitations of 16/48.

infinitesymphony would gladly fill you in on his recent experience using it for recording if you need more info about that, I'm sure!

 

[milkweg]

I use my EMU 0404 over coax spdif from my X-Fi. Biggest benefit of that is that it uses less cpu resources than USB and I get to use the better DAC in games and still have the X-Fi hardware acceleration. That also eliminates any possible USB issues that some people get too. I've used it over USB also and never had any issues that some people have had with pops and clicks. If you get that issue then it is your PC's USB host controller that is at fault and will probably be fixed by adding an an add-on PCI USB card, or maybe using a powered USB hub.

 

[rms]

I'm running WinXP on a ECS K8M800-M2 mobo with AMD Sempron 2600+ cpu, 1 gig ram, with an Audigy 2ZS card, 4 powered USB 2.0 ports. I'm using ProTracks plus right now which came with my Digitech GNX4 effects unit but will be upgrading to Sonar soon. My first priority is getting perfect bitrate (or close as possible) out to my Van Alstine Omegastar DAC for stereo playback. Second, but very high priority will be recording - the 0404 does look like a great interface. It looks like I could take coax out to the external DAC. When recording using the USB 2.0 have there been any issues with latency during live playback / simultaneous recording when laying down more tracks? I know that used to be problematic but maybe that is now a non-issue with 2.0?

 

[YouSpentHowMuch?]

Sorry to dig out this old thread, but just had to mentoin a personal experience. I have a Musiland MD-10 DAC which has USB, RCA, Toslink, and BNC input. Until very recently I had only used it through USB, but since I have a X-Fi Xtreme Music sound card I decided to try out it's digital I/O. To do this I ordered a custom 1/8' mini to BNC cable from Blue Jeans Cables (I choose BNC over RCA because of it's locking system). Upon first listen I noticed an increase in clarity with a definite improvement in sub-bass and detail retreival. I'd also like to mentoin that both outputs were configured for bit-perfect ASIO playback. With USB it was through ASIO4ALL and for the X-Fi with Creative's own ASIO driver. More likely than not this particular DACs USB input just isn't as good as it's other inputs. But personally I think it's because by using COAX you're avoiding the overhead involved in converting USB to S/PDIF. Sorry I know this has been discussed endlessly, but just had to tell somebody.

EDIT: After several hours of listening I have to say the improvements are far from subtle. It's like a whole new DAC!

 

[Ross1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouSpentHowMuch? /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry I know this has been discussed endlessly, but just had to tell somebody.

Not at all, its well worth knowing what you found. I think there are quite a few people who feel they can hear an improvement with S/PDIF over USB.... and there are others who prefer USB.

I thought I heard an improvement with optical over USB on the 0404 usb, but I may have just been deluding myself. I could easily see myself trying to favour the one that used less system resources.

 

[HardHeadCase]

Your musiland simply converts the usb input to spdif and in doing so causes sq to degrade. If you use a usb dac then you should be looking for usb Is2. Scott Nixon and Headamp use this type of usb input with very good results.

 

[variable114]

since this thread is here and my question is related, I'll ask

I just out together a new computer with an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude. I have front panel audio on my case so I rigged that up so I could pop headphones in with ease. however, I get the all too common high pitched noise and static coming through, and I really don't want to deal with that. I may try to shuffle the card to a different pci slot, but in case that doesn't work, I google'd for possible solutions, and a USB DAC seemed the most recommended one.

since my card has the digital out and I just spent money on it, I want to keep using it, so I wouldn't be going the USB route. I'm certain of that.

I suppose my question is, though it's fairly simple, can I keep my speakers hooked up strait to the sound card and just plug headphones into the dac? I've NEVER used anything close to this, so sorry if this is a question with a very obvious answer, but I don't know what the software looks like or how the hardware works enough to know on my own. before I throw another chunk of change towards my audio experience I'd like to know if it will be convenient.

edit - specifically I was looking at the emu 0404 as I don't think the 0202 has the inputs I need.

Thanks.

edit2 - my speakers (cheap-o logitechs) have a control on them to change volume and on it there is a plug for headphones. I get no sound through that, but I find it impossible to believe there isn't quality loss... I've asked this before but basically I just want verification that there is going to be loss going through that plug.

thanks again.