[extralivesx99]

Hi, im new to the forum. I came with a few questions and couldnt help but look through the forum. Doing so, i realized how little i know about sound equipment. First, i just want to say, i really dont know much, so be nice please

. Secondly, i want to thank anyone who looks at this and/or posts. It is much appreciated.

Third, my question:

I just got a Logitech Z-2300 2.1 computer speaker system. I set it up, plugged it in, and the bass was so disapointing, i thought i had blown the fuse. Then after some research, i figured my Realtek AC97 onboard sound card was most likely the bottleneck. Ive recently been becoming more and more of an audiophile, the problem being, that i am a poor one. So i was looking at sound cards, and two stuck out.

1. Chaintech AV-710 Soundcard
2. Diamond Xtremesound XS71

These are my two options, given the excellent prices and apparent sound quality.

I read in the thread "How do i get the best sound from my computer?"

"Digital Output --> High Quality DAC --> High Quality Amp --> High Quality Headphones"

-Revliskciuq

So according to that formula, would this setup work out?

My computer > DAC > The z2300 apprently has a "Ultra-linear, high capacity analog amplifier"> to the speakers/headphones. Does that formula only apply for headphones? Whats a decent DAC thats cheap in price as well?

Anyway, thank you again for looking at this post. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Im also always willing to learn, so please correct me if ive said something wrong. THanks alot

 

[extralivesx99]

ok i just looked at a few of the dacs mentioned on this site, i am a poor college student haha. i cannot afford a dac, i will have to do without.

 

[AzNwiLD0]

First all, you don't want Logitech products in your audio equipment. Yes they make speakers that are on par with their price range, but any decent pair of headphones over 20 USD will outpace the speakers sound-quality-wise.

As long as you stick with headphones under 50 USD, plugging them into the Logitech to amp them doesn't matter. Over 50 dollars, and it starts making a difference. With headphones over 100 dollars, the Logitech amp would be a severe limiting factor in the search for good sound.

Since you're investigating the 'best sound possible', you're dealing with DACs (high-end external "sound card") that are easily 200 dollars, and headphones at bare minimum over 200, better 400 and beyond, Logitech amps just don't do. And many DACs come with decent amps built in, so you won't need your silly Logitech speakers to amp. If you do manage to get a DAC without an amp built in, do get a seperate amp, don't use the logitechs.

Hope this makes sense.

What's your budget? Many head-fi-ers and I are here to help you part with your money. We'll be happy to recommend something

 

[Razoramus]

For a budget system, how about:

AV-710 optical out > low end receiver (includes dac and amp) > headphones/bookshelfs

 

[Elephas]

This should be a decent-sounding WinXP system:

FLAC or other lossless files played through foobar 0.8.3 ASIO

Chaintech AV710 optical output

Mhdt Lab Dialogue II DAC (eBay, around US$180 if lucky, US$250 if not)

Your Logitech Z-2300 speakers and headphone output for now. Add a headphone amp and better headphones for a significant level up in sound quality.

I bought a Zero Audiocraft dual CMOY amp on eBay for about US$60.

 

[Cyrilix]

I hope you have a bigger budget than $30 (Chaintech AV-710), because otherwise, you aren't even going to be putting two steps into hi-fi.

 

[sgrossklass]

That Diamond card looks like it's based upon the CMI8768. Wouldn't get that for analog out, go with the AV-710 instead. And please, don't even think of plugging cans into the Logitech's headphone out, these tend to be extremely crappy. Better get a Cmoy for this purpose.
Oh, and it's not clear to me what "the bass was so disapointing, i thought i had blown the fuse" would mean here. These x.1 systems tend to have boomy one-note bass that doesn't sound right no matter what you set the bass volume to, but they're not likely to have too little bass. Not even humble onboard sound would cause extreme deficiencies here.

 

[rimmer]

Get some soundcard with good onboard DAC and thus good analog out (like AV710) and some cheap amp and monitors, or powered monitors (like some M-Audio or Swans M200 are; nice are from $200) and some simple headphone amp to the beginning (CMoy, GoVibe, PA2V2 etc.). That's the easiest and cheapest way to get maximum out of limited budget. And I forgot, throw away that x.1 Logitech or whatever boomy crap.

 

[Cloudbreak0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzNwiLD0 First all, you don't want Logitech products in your audio equipment. Yes they make speakers that are on par with their price range, but any decent pair of headphones over 20 USD will outpace the speakers sound-quality-wise. As long as you stick with headphones under 50 USD, plugging them into the Logitech to amp them doesn't matter. Over 50 dollars, and it starts making a difference. With headphones over 100 dollars, the Logitech amp would be a severe limiting factor in the search for good sound. Since you're investigating the 'best sound possible', you're dealing with DACs (high-end external "sound card") that are easily 200 dollars, and headphones at bare minimum over 200, better 400 and beyond, Logitech amps just don't do. And many DACs come with decent amps built in, so you won't need your silly Logitech speakers to amp. If you do manage to get a DAC without an amp built in, do get a seperate amp, don't use the logitechs. Hope this makes sense. What's your budget? Many head-fi-ers and I are here to help you part with your money. We'll be happy to recommend something

I really have to disagree with this strongly. I have the z-2200s which are the predecessors to the z2300s (though after listening to both extensively, I have found the z2200s to lead the 2300s in sound quality because of the 3" drivers used instead of the 2.5" on the z2300) and they are both fine speakers. They are much more engaging than any $20 headphone out there. Yes, some of the higher end phones that I own do beat them by a margin (at over 3x the price). I would only recommend a headphone solution to you (the OP) if you cant use your 2300s because of noise control issues.

To the op:

The problem with the poor bass response on the 2300s is due largely to woofer placement. The woofer has to be close enough to a wall or desk that it can resonate off of in order for it to be effective. When I have my woofer in the middle of the room, you can barely even tell that its on. However, move it close to a wall with my wooden computer desk on the other side, and windows shake, things start falling off my desk, and I have even knocked a picture off of the wall.

You may ask, "how do you know that its not my sound card that is to blame for the lack in bass?" And I answer that question in that I started my setup with on board sound and later moved to an av710. While the 710 offered better instrument separation and sound staging, the improvement in bass response was not notable.

Now I am not saying that the 710 didn't improve things. If you want improved sound, the 710 is a great place to start. But, don't buy it expecting to have some earth-shaking unveiling of bass in your 2300s. That has a lot more to do with woofer placement. The z2x00s really shine with the 710 and a good FLAC recording... if you can stand the 38hz-15/16khz or so roll off. I hope this helps.

-Spencer

 

[extralivesx99]

Sorry guys its been a crazy week! Haven't had a chance to type up a response. Thanks to all the replies, you guys are great. Lets see, where to start?

To answer some questions about my budget, i have around 500 to spend. The thing is, the more i save, the more i have. I hope that makes sense, but being a college student, im not raking in cash.

I already received my av710 from newegg as well as a turtle beach micro advantage usb sound enhancer thingy from them as well. Firstly i just want to say with the av710, my sony MDR-EX71s, and the various tweaks for the av710 offered on this site, ive noticed an incredible jump in sound quality from my previous Realtek AC'97! It was incredible, i sat in my chair and listened to hours of music to test out how good everything sounded.

Also to further elaborate on my recent purchase, the turtle beach micro advantage usb thing is awesome and for 27 dollars, i cant be any happier.

After hearing how good music can sound, i looked over your posts multiple times and researched a bit. Honestly, i took everyones opinion and thoughts into careful consideration, and i think i came up with a reasonable and good decision.

So ive decided that i am going to be a little selfish, stick with the Logitech Z2300s for gaming and such, and beef up my headphone sound for personal music. Being a DIY guy, im going to try to build a Cmoy myself, and if it doesnt work out, im going to buy buy buy. Until then, ill update you on my project.

I know a lot of you are gonna think im stupid, but i think this is the best way to introduce myself to the "head fi" world and even if i really dont know what im talking about now, ya gotta start somewhere.

 

[Elephas]

Nah, no one is going to think you're stupid. The best way to get into audio is exactly what you're doing, trying things and hear for yourself.

I also use a Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro with a ThinkPad T42 laptop. I installed the Turtle Beach drivers and ASIO4ALL. Playing FLAC files through foobar 0.8.3 ASIO output sounds decent. I use it as a line out to a portable amp, not as a headphone port. Using it as a headphone out resulted in a very narrow volume control range and lesser sound quality.

Good luck, and enjoy your Head-Fi adventure.

 

[Jahn]

500 bucks? you have more than enough to get into this hobby!

Try this-

EMU 0404 - $99. You can find a modded one used for that price here if you are patient.

Lite DAC-ah - $150. Get a $25 glass optical cable too.

Amp? Now here I leave it up to you. Plenty of great ones out there! Same goes for headphones - too many cans to count!

 

[Tachikoma]

Instead of the Emu 0404, I'd recommend a used X-fi (only $90). That way, you get fancy gaming sound effects with no (significant?) loss in SQ; after all you are only going to use it for the digital out

You might need to spend a little more for the digital cable though, coaxial cables seem to be more expensive than glass toslinks >.>

 

[extralivesx99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas Nah, no one is going to think you're stupid. The best way to get into audio is exactly what you're doing, trying things and hear for yourself. I also use a Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro with a ThinkPad T42 laptop. I installed the Turtle Beach drivers and ASIO4ALL. Playing FLAC files through foobar 0.8.3 ASIO output sounds decent. I use it as a line out to a portable amp, not as a headphone port. Using it as a headphone out resulted in a very narrow volume control range and lesser sound quality. Good luck, and enjoy your Head-Fi adventure.

Thanks for the boost in confidence, im going to order parts as soon as i get a chance to, is there a good site where i can order the parts i need for a cmoy? Im following this site here... http://tangentsoft.net/audio/cmoy-tutorial .


Also for the Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro, what kind of settings do you use with foobar 0.8.3 ASIO and ASIO4ALL?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn 500 bucks? you have more than enough to get into this hobby! Try this- EMU 0404 - $99. You can find a modded one used for that price here if you are patient. Lite DAC-ah - $150. Get a $25 glass optical cable too. Amp? Now here I leave it up to you. Plenty of great ones out there! Same goes for headphones - too many cans to count!

500 Bucks is the money im willing to part with for all my personal wants expenses. Which means, other things besides great audio haha. Like better food then dorm food, clothes, etc...

For now i think im gonna stick with my av710, and if i build up enough confidence, replace the ch 7/8 capacitors. As for DAC, there are so many out there, and so many have been recommended. I wish i could test them all before i bought them haha. Looks like ill just have to hope for the best when i purchase. So far the sony mdr-ex71 are doing me justice and my shure e2cs have been collecting dust, ill have to get them out... its just that, they are so damn ugly.

 

[Elephas]

Here's a thread about foobar and the TBAAM.
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=155636

Let me know if you need more info.