SONY NW-WM1Z / WM1A
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 1, 2016 at 6:39 AM Post #2,716 of 45,723
Guys, when you a couch 2000$, it costs 800$ to the store selling it to you. And maybe 400 to build at most. Are they all criminals? This is the nature of every business with such a value chain.

But it is nice to have such business experts to enlighten us poor foolish consumers.

You can crunch the numbers any which way it's still way overpriced or are you trying to justify your pending future purchase?
 
  Guys have no question in upgrading their handphone to the latest and most expensive on an annual basis, then complain about the price of DAP.

How much do you think a 5-figure price-tagged LV, Gucci or a Hermes bag cost to manufacture? do you see the trend slowing down? this consumerism are nothing new so why all the hue and cry?

* no way I'm gonna spend that sum of money on the 1Z myself just so we're clear 
wink.gif

 
I don't buy the latest and greatest every year, in fact I still own my ever pleasing JVC DX2000 bought in 2008 and despise mobile phones. Just because the plebs are buying Gucci or a Hermes bag and pay exorbitant sums it doesn't mean they do it because their informed, they do it to show off and make up for a lack of self esteem. Now I am not saying people here are buying the 1Z for the reason just stated although saying the cost is somehow justified is immoral.
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 7:54 AM Post #2,717 of 45,723
Ok...Just returned from a demo session of the 1Z, with a comparison against the 380CU. But before that, I thought that I shd start with some extracts from the conversation I had with the engineer behind this project with regards to the philosophy and design choices behind the player.

From what i gathered, he said that the lack of a wifi/streaming feature was a deliberate choice, as this player was meant to reproduce music in its optimal form. Hence it was stripped of any and all unnecessary components that did not add to that goal as each additional component in the player casing would pollute the final output. So in his view, if you rely on streamed music, this is not the player for you. 

Secondly, the choice to go with a pure copper chasis was because its use as a grounding point offered the the player the best sonic performance. Holding the player in your hand should not affect the sound, as the impedence between your hand and the player would be too high to to matter. 

Third, why the choice to use Kimble cable for the internal wiring instead of, say, pure silver or even gold plated silver? It was interesting to note that both cables were the same , although they were sleeved using different material (and hence the different colour). His team went ahead with kimble pure copper cable (or was it SPC? not really sure due to my meager japanese proficiency), as it added the most body to the sound. They experimented with using pure silver (they said it made the sound too harsh), SPC and so on, and they found that copper for the jack wiring offered to them, the sound that was closest to their ideal. 

Lastly, we talked about the power output from the 3.5 and 4.4mm. He admitted that the 4.4 was way more powerful (the aide said that the balanced was 4x more powerful, but I think I heard wrong). My follow up question was impedence matching, since CIEMS and headphones have very different power demands, but they insisted that the player was 'universal' in its application, and that BOTH CIEMS and headphones will be more than well served by the 1Z on both single and balanced. However, he did recommend that CIEMS stick to the single end side of the 1Z. 
 
 

 
 
 
 
Ok, now for sonic impressions.

I spent a good 15-20 mins demo-ing the unit, with side by side comparisons. The SD card in the Sony player was a Sony Audiophile card (64gb), paired with a DHC type 2 litz Fusion wire 8 wire (my reference cable, most people find it lifeless), using a Empire Ears Omega CIEM with a tweak made to emphasize resolution as opposed to the bass regions.
 
Sonic characteristic (female vocal songs):

I found the 1Z alot more full bodied in the mids and the lower bass regions. Vocals sounded more weighted, and powerful. The bass hit harder, and had more rumble. The 380CU sounded more reference, and even thin (if you could call the CU 'thin') in comparison to the 1Z. 

Staging (live performance recordings):

The 1Z had a slight edge in its spatial imaging, with the CU was more defined and focused in its presentation. If the 1Z made the song resemble a concert hall experience, the 380CU made it sound like a well engineered studio room. 

Resolution and technicality.

This is where the CU, overtakes the 1Z, much to my surprise. The CU was, hands down much more resolving than the 1Z. The bass texture was way less boomy and had very minimal bleed in the CU, while in the 1Z the lower bass was slightly boomy and spatially bled into different areas. Vocals, was also slightly unfocused and somehow struggled to extend as naturally as the CU. This made the 1Z, as strange as it sounds, sound a little unnatural and awkward. This, unfortunately, added a slight 'veil' to the sound, and made it sound a little muddy compared to the 380CU.


CONCLUSION

Tl;DR. The 1Z certainly is a flagship products that will appeal to a large majority of the market. Most people will find that full bodied, coloured sound extremely appealing and engaging. Coupled with its higher power output on the single and balanced end, it will serve a large majority of the audio community that straddles both iems and headphones very well. 

However, as a person who only uses CIEMS, and intends to expand into a speaker set up, the 1Z offers little reason for me to shift over from my 380CU. The CU is simply more resolving when one uses sensitive CIEMS that responds to the smallest of changes and details, and I feel that for a flagship audiophile product such as this, this is one area that the 1Z cannot afford to fail in. 



 
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 8:22 AM Post #2,718 of 45,723
Thanks for the notes, Rei87. Much appreciated. It may well be that the slight bass bloom will settle down after some time. We'll see. Thanks! :)
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 8:58 AM Post #2,722 of 45,723
Yes. Asked the staff to turn off the eq(if it was on),and the digital upscaler.


Was you using TRRS on Single ended ? Had you tried balanced 4.4mm ? Again, I can not push this enough, But Sony devices "excels" in separated grounds and balanced. Coming from Zx2, I know it

Zx2 with TRRS vastly increase performances of separation, imagine, resolutions overall VS single ended.

Let me guess, your observation on resolution and resolving power told me that you only used "single ended" on the 1Z, because that is exactly what Zx2 single ended sound like
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 9:02 AM Post #2,723 of 45,723
  Ok...Just returned from a demo session of the 1Z, with a comparison against the 380CU. But before that, I thought that I shd start with some extracts from the conversation I had with the engineer behind this project with regards to the philosophy and design choices behind the player.

From what i gathered, he said that the lack of a wifi/streaming feature was a deliberate choice, as this player was meant to reproduce music in its optimal form. Hence it was stripped of any and all unnecessary components that did not add to that goal as each additional component in the player casing would pollute the final output. So in his view, if you rely on streamed music, this is not the player for you. 

Secondly, the choice to go with a pure copper chasis was because its use as a grounding point offered the the player the best sonic performance. Holding the player in your hand should not affect the sound, as the impedence between your hand and the player would be too high to to matter. 

Third, why the choice to use Kimble cable for the internal wiring instead of, say, pure silver or even gold plated silver? It was interesting to note that both cables were the same , although they were sleeved using different material (and hence the different colour). His team went ahead with kimble pure copper cable (or was it SPC? not really sure due to my meager japanese proficiency), as it added the most body to the sound. They experimented with using pure silver (they said it made the sound too harsh), SPC and so on, and they found that copper for the jack wiring offered to them, the sound that was closest to their ideal. 

Lastly, we talked about the power output from the 3.5 and 4.4mm. He admitted that the 4.4 was way more powerful (the aide said that the balanced was 4x more powerful, but I think I heard wrong). My follow up question was impedence matching, since CIEMS and headphones have very different power demands, but they insisted that the player was 'universal' in its application, and that BOTH CIEMS and headphones will be more than well served by the 1Z on both single and balanced. However, he did recommend that CIEMS stick to the single end side of the 1Z. 
 
 

 
 
 
 
Ok, now for sonic impressions.

I spent a good 15-20 mins demo-ing the unit, with side by side comparisons. The SD card in the Sony player was a Sony Audiophile card (64gb), paired with a DHC type 2 litz Fusion wire 8 wire (my reference cable, most people find it lifeless), using a Empire Ears Omega CIEM with a tweak made to emphasize resolution as opposed to the bass regions.
 
Sonic characteristic (female vocal songs):

I found the 1Z alot more full bodied in the mids and the lower bass regions. Vocals sounded more weighted, and powerful. The bass hit harder, and had more rumble. The 380CU sounded more reference, and even thin (if you could call the CU 'thin') in comparison to the 1Z. 

Staging (live performance recordings):

The 1Z had a slight edge in its spatial imaging, with the CU was more defined and focused in its presentation. If the 1Z made the song resemble a concert hall experience, the 380CU made it sound like a well engineered studio room. 

Resolution and technicality.

This is where the CU, overtakes the 1Z, much to my surprise. The CU was, hands down much more resolving than the 1Z. The bass texture was way less boomy and had very minimal bleed in the CU, while in the 1Z the lower bass was slightly boomy and spatially bled into different areas. Vocals, was also slightly unfocused and somehow struggled to extend as naturally as the CU. This made the 1Z, as strange as it sounds, sound a little unnatural and awkward. This, unfortunately, added a slight 'veil' to the sound, and made it sound a little muddy compared to the 380CU.


CONCLUSION

Tl;DR. The 1Z certainly is a flagship products that will appeal to a large majority of the market. Most people will find that full bodied, coloured sound extremely appealing and engaging. Coupled with its higher power output on the single and balanced end, it will serve a large majority of the audio community that straddles both iems and headphones very well. 

However, as a person who only uses CIEMS, and intends to expand into a speaker set up, the 1Z offers little reason for me to shift over from my 380CU. The CU is simply more resolving when one uses sensitive CIEMS that responds to the smallest of changes and details, and I feel that for a flagship audiophile product such as this, this is one area that the 1Z cannot afford to fail in. 



 


​Again 1A is calling my name, come to the Dark (aluminum casing) side haaaaaaa! haaaaaaa! (darth vader breathing)
biggrin.gif

 
Oct 1, 2016 at 9:05 AM Post #2,724 of 45,723
  I think all this premature impression of the current walkman are unfair when in theory they only will sound their best when used in balance. I for one do not see the point of single ended users (those who will never used balance connector) to buy a balance source if they will never use it. There are arguably better single ended daps out there. 

To me if I was to get this dap I will be making sure to use it at its best possible way and that would be its balance out. While the justification for single end to single ended impression is valid ultimately the important question is 'how good does it sound using the best possible setup it can offer?'


​Agree with you no more, if i would review my 1A when i have it, i would burn it for 250hr before putting final impressions
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 9:08 AM Post #2,725 of 45,723


I wanted to love this. I really did.

I'm sticking to my AK320. Will write a little more after the bustle of the demo event passes.

Did you review the 1A also? how it does compre to the AK as they define as less warm tan 1Z (yeah for classical)
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 9:10 AM Post #2,726 of 45,723
I would love to review this again on the balanced, but the lack of a 4.4 made it rahter impossible.

It was a comparison of single end to single end. And to add, my balanced sounds significantly better than my single end, so my 380CU was also similarly handicapped just as the 1Z was in this comparison.

I agree that the 1Z may not be at its best, since sony players are rumoured to require a significant amount of burn in time. However the engineer assure me that the sound I heard on those units was more or less close to what they had in mind, so any changes post burn in shouldn't lead to too drastic a change
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 9:15 AM Post #2,727 of 45,723
Was you using TRRS on Single ended ? Had you tried balanced 4.4mm ? Again, I can not push this enough, But Sony devices "excels" in separated grounds and balanced. Coming from Zx2, I know it

Zx2 with TRRS vastly increase performances of separation, imagine, resolutions overall VS single ended.

Let me guess, your observation on resolution and resolving power told me that you only used "single ended" on the 1Z, because that is exactly what Zx2 single ended sound like


How do you try 4.4mm balanced when adapters and cables are not readily commercially available?
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 9:50 AM Post #2,729 of 45,723
I feel really annoyed with Sony actually. They give us balanced and gimp it by forcing you to use 4.4....which you can't use other than their headphone currently. They say Native DSD! but only on the 4.4 jack......but we advise you not use that with any earphones....use 3.5mm......and here I thought we were talking about a DAP for portability and not to lug around hd800's and he1000's. Then they even made their 3.5 TRRS making it annoying for people to have to recable for that.......I don't get their strategy. A 3.3k or even a 1.2k product esp a DAP should be easy to use and sound its best out of the box. You should be able to use all its features easily.....out of the box. All these proprietary things needed to even use a function is a PITA.
 
Oct 1, 2016 at 9:55 AM Post #2,730 of 45,723
The 4.4mm balanced jack is not proprietary, it's an actual standard, as in not owned by Sony, and available for adoption by other manufacturers, compared to the pseudo balanced 3.5mm TRRS and balanced 2.5, it's a full implementation that Sony doesn't collect licensing fees on.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

  • Kpix
Back
Top