Sony MDR-1000X

[BenKatz]

  i know some who are. Sony really can't compete with AKG, Sennheisers, bang and olufsen, shure etc in their mainstream offering. 
 
the zr1 is a legednary headphone but its at 3000thousand price tag definitely not mainstream. Maybe what they should do is make a baby version of the zr1 for 300 dolalrs while retaining many of its qualities. Sony headphones tend to be bassy and I believe the mdr1a is so, not well balanced. 
 
I definitely wanna get Sony Xba1 earphones and the ex650ap. but the otheres you mentioned are 300 dollar plus earphones. Im more thinking of 100 dollar price tag. And I think i'd rather get sennheisers for 100 dollars. 

Well, that is your opinion.
 
I bought my first premium Sony headphones 2 years ago, the MDR 1A. And that was after fistly reading reviews, which, if you check, are very praising when it comes to that pair. Then, I went to my local headphone shop where they've got a lot of premium offerings, and after testing a lot, I got the MDR 1A. Sennheiser are indeed good, though a lot of their pieces are hit and miss and the Momentum didn't impress me. But I've tested quite a few AKG and I find Sony clearly superior. Same thing with Bang and Olufsen. As far as in-ear, only the Momentum in-ear impressed me over the EX650AP, and I tested a few AKG. 
 
Sony has been upping their game quite a lot in the past years. You should really test them before forming an opinion. Especially the high end in ear headphones. You'll be hard pressed to find a better sounding in ear headphone than the XBA A3, i'm sure of it. 

 

[aertus]

  Well, that is your opinion.
 
I bought my first premium Sony headphones 2 years ago, the MDR 1A. And that was after fistly reading reviews, which, if you check, are very praising when it comes to that pair. Then, I went to my local headphone shop where they've got a lot of premium offerings, and after testing a lot, I got the MDR 1A. Sennheiser are indeed good, though a lot of their pieces are hit and miss and the Momentum didn't impress me. But I've tested quite a few AKG and I find Sony clearly superior. Same thing with Bang and Olufsen. As far as in-ear, only the Momentum in-ear impressed me over the EX650AP, and I tested a few AKG. 
 
Sony has been upping their game quite a lot in the past years. You should really test them before forming an opinion. Especially the high end in ear headphones. You'll be hard pressed to find a better sounding in ear headphone than the XBA A3, i'm sure of it. 

ex650 and Xba1 are definitely on my next list purchase to replace my mh750. I will consider the xbaa3 when I have enough money. but at that price range i might as well go for the ex1000 since its the absolute top from sony. 
 
I heard AKG puts less emphasis on bass and more about balance. 

 

[RojasTKD]

I'll be looking very forward to the Android O update to hear how LDAC sounds with these & my LG V20!

Though Android O will support LDAC, the hardware manufacturer will have to license it from Don't in order to incorporate it into their devices. At least that's how I understand it.

There's no guarantee that LG will license the tech.

 

[Maddog510]

Though Android O will support LDAC, the hardware manufacturer will have to license it from Don't in order to incorporate it into their devices. At least that's how I understand it.

There's no guarantee that LG will license the tech.

Well since LG is a big player in the phone market I hope they do. It'll be very disappointing if they don't.

 

[rkw]

Though Android O will support LDAC, the hardware manufacturer will have to license it

 
I think you're right, it will probably be like licensing aptX (owned by Qualcomm).
 
I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm not optimistic about the future of LDAC. It has already been available to license for the past 2 years, but there has been no interest from the industry. Sony remains the only company producing LDAC products. For LDAC to survive, other companies need to sign up and produce both LDAC headphones and players.
 
At this point, I think manufacturers are more interested in Bluetooth 5 and will continue to ignore LDAC.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I have been researching Bluetooth 5 just a little. I was reading on the Bluetooth site itself and it really doesn't seem that BT 5 is any guarantee that audio will be better with it, unless codecs like LDAC are used on both ends. Here is a snippet from a web article about BT 5:
 
Audio: The enhancements of Bluetooth 5 focus very much on the expanding world of the Internet of Things, of which audio is but a small part. But with this extra range and data rate, we have to get better sound, right?

Er… we hope so. Everything in the specification for Bluetooth 5 would seem to indicate it is possible, but only if manufacturers or codec suppliers go their own way. The only audio references in the new specification are related to speech; the world ‘stereo’ does not appear in the entire 2822-page document, and A2DP is only referenced in relation to latency and buffering requirements. That means that the audio standards from Bluetooth 4.2 still apply, which means that the A2DP spec adopted in July 2015 (revision 1.3.1) still applies, and nothing has really changed — SBC is the only mandatory codec, MPEG1-4 and ATRAC are optional.

Vendor-specific codecs will be the only way to get better audio performance from a Bluetooth device, and it's not yet clear whether they will be able to commandeer any of the improved bandwidth for this purpose.

If it is possible, then both Sony and aptX (Qualcomm) are well placed to do so, having developed currently lossy but relatively high bit-rate codecs in, respectively, Sony’s LDAC (click for more) and Qualcomm’s aptX HD (click for more). If these can now grab higher data rates from the expanded abilities of Bluetooth 5, we might have lossless CD quality, even lossless high resolution available. But only if the codec is present at both  SND and SNK device – just as today you need aptX in both your phone and your Bluetooth speaker to use that higher (not quite CD) quality stream.
 

So as yet, we need more information on how Bluetooth 5 can be adapted for audio use. We’ll contact the folks we know and update this story as we learn more.
 
source: http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-image/what-is-bluetooth-5-444083
 
It will come down to cost. If Qualacomm wants to develop a higher bitrate chip that is more affordable than the Sony solution, it will likely win. But if Sony is really serious, and I think they are, then we may just see Sony fight hard for this market segment. I think lossless streaming will be the norm in a short time and perhaps Sony also sees that and wants to be the first one into the pool. The fact that they are participating in the Android O audio development is a positive sign. But I agree, nobody knows just yet. So BT 5 is not the answer without the proper codecs to drive it.

 

[meringo]

I'm sure we will see a lot of AptX-HD and LDAC devices in the near future, especially if adaptation rate changes with Android O (easy implementation)
 
Honestly, I think the days of wires are over. My MDR-1000x have become my daily driver since getting Sony's A-35 player.

 

[Sonic Defender]

  I'm sure we will see a lot of AptX-HD and LDAC devices in the near future, especially if adaptation rate changes with Android O (easy implementation)
 
Honestly, I think the days of wires are over. My MDR-1000x have become my daily driver since getting Sony's A-35 player.

I agree, wires are dead for portable almost for certain, and even for at home and flagship headphones, the days of cables are numbered. That you can pretty much take to the bank. Within 5-7 years I can't imagine the arguments for needing cables to hold much water. Going to see lots of really expensive cables being sold for dirt cheap on the used market in the not to distant future, IMO.
 
Edit: I'm going to backpeddal a little. First, the more I think about it, the type of person who gravitates to expensive after market cables is not likely ever going to believe that wireless can sound as good, even if evidence may suggest otherwise. And it may take a little more time to get extremely high quality amplifiers  small enough that the driver control that can be achieved with larger amplification circuitry is possible to embed in a headphone.
 
I still feel fully confident that these goals are possible and highly likely, but market forces will be the dictator of the pace of development. Who knows, if one major player sinks big R&D and marketing into these goals, it might really move the market forward. Hard to say, but I do remain confident that cables won't actually be needed. They may be wanted or preferred by some, but not needed.

 

[rkw]

  It will come down to cost. If Qualcomm wants to develop a higher bitrate chip that is more affordable than the Sony solution, it will likely win.

 
aptX HD is already taking the early lead. For whatever reasons, manufacturers are more willing to adopt it compared to LDAC. https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2017/02/26/qualcomm-aptx-hd-gains-momentum-among-leading-consumer-electronics-brands
List of current aptX HD products: https://www.aptx.com/products?field_aptx_type_tid=483
 
The prospect of LDAC in Android O needs to be put in perspective. Android N is currently at less than 3% adoption (https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/). It will be years before even Android N (nevermind Android O) has a significant presence. If you're a headphone manufacturer, there is little motivation to add LDAC to your products.

 

[BenKatz]

I think you're right, it will probably be like licensing aptX (owned by [COLOR=545454]Qualcomm)[/COLOR].

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm not optimistic about the future of LDAC. It has already been available to license for the past 2 years, but there has been no interest from the industry. Sony remains the only company producing LDAC products. For LDAC to survive, other companies need to sign up and produce both LDAC headphones and players.

At this point, I think manufacturers are more interested in Bluetooth 5 and will continue to ignore LDAC.

I've got to correct you on that. LDAC hasn't been availabe for licensing. LDAC is a Sony proprietary technology/codec. This is why you obviously only see it on Sony products. Also, the first time Sony opened up LDAC for outside use is in the current development of Android O in collaboration with Google. Now, I don't know if that means that you'll ever see LDAC on non Sony audio bt products, but apparently you'll definitely see it on many Android phones, which, in turn, will push a lot of Sony headphone/speakers to consumers.

Also, Bluetooth 5 won't improve audio in any way without LDAC or aptx codecs. Just like BT 4.X without LDAC/aptx (pixel, iphone 7).

 

[BenKatz]

aptX HD is already taking the early lead. For whatever reasons, manufacturers are more willing to adopt it compared to LDAC. https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2017/02/26/qualcomm-aptx-hd-gains-momentum-among-leading-consumer-electronics-brands
List of current aptX HD products: https://www.aptx.com/products?field_aptx_type_tid=483

The prospect of LDAC in Android O needs to be put in perspective. Android N is currently at less than 3% adoption (https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/). It will be years before even Android N (nevermind Android O) has a significant presence. If you're a headphone manufacturer, there is little motivation to add LDAC to your products.

No way, man. Sony has 5 times more products alone, in its own lineup (headphones/speakers or players) that are LDAC compared to all aptX hd. LDAC has proved itself as a good auidio technology in the pasr 2 years (check out reviews), plus, the fact that Android O will come with LDAC means that in the near future LDAC will see a much wider adoption over aptxHD, which is just a late try by qualcomm to counter LDAC. I remeber reading about aptxHDs development a year and a half ago. At that time I was reading it on my Z5 that came with LDAC on it.

Plus, the same thing can be said about manufacturers adding aptxHD to their products. Why would they over LDAc, when LDAC is already present on all Sony smartphones and high res DAPs plus wireless audio products?

 

[rkw]

I've got to correct you on that. LDAC hasn't been availabe for licensing.

 
I was off by a year. This article in 2015 says LDAC licensing would be available in 2016:
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/eda-and-ip/sony-license-ldac-2015-05/

 

[rkw]

the fact that Android O will come with LDAC means that in the near future LDAC will see a much wider adoption over aptxHD

 
We're talking about Android, and "near future" is a relative term. Android M is now on 31% of Android phones. Android N is at 3% and will take a couple of years to reach 30%. It may take 4 years before Android O is on a significant number of phones, which would finally motivate headphone manufacturers (besides Sony) to adopt LDAC.
 
Meanwhile, Qualcomm has already convinced multiple manufacturers to use aptX HD, something Sony has been unable to do with LDAC. For companies that already use aptX, it is a natural progression to aptX HD since it is backward compatible.

 

[BenKatz]

 
We're talking about Android, and "near future" is a relative term. Android M is now on 31% of Android phones. Android N is at 3% and will take a couple of years to reach 30%. It may take 4 years before Android O is on a significant number of phones, which would finally motivate headphone manufacturers (besides Sony) to adopt LDAC.
 
Meanwhile, Qualcomm has already convinced multiple manufacturers to use aptX HD, something Sony has been unable to do with LDAC. For companies that already use aptX, it is a natural progression to aptX HD since it is backward compatible.

 


From all the information I see online, Google, which is huge, since Android has a huge market share, said LDAC will be part of Android AOSP base code. This is the first time Sony has licensed it's LDAC codec. And as far as the market goes, Sony has a much bigger share of HD bluetooth products. LDAC si present in almost all of their BT headphones and wireless speakers, at least the ones released in the last year and a half. Also, Sony has quite a big market share when it comes to headphones, not to mention the quality, backed up by reviews.

Since LDAC will be baked into the Android AOSP base code, unlike aptx for instance, that wasn't (that's why not all Android devices have aptx, including the Pixel), why would Samsung for example pay extra money for aptx HD, when it gets LDAC into their Android O compatible-for-update devices, and since there are what, 2-3 headphones with aptxHD out ther, but a ton of them from Sony, including what is widely considered one of the best wireless headphones and best noise cancelling headphone? I fail to see how the extra licensing money would make sense in these conditions.

Also, maybe you haven't checked the specs, but check out this what hifi article: http://www.whathifi.com/advice/aptx-hd-bluetooth-what-it-how-can-you-get-it

In short, Apt HD has a maximum transfer rate of 576 kb/s. LDAC tops out at 990kb/s. Again, why would anyone pay extra for another HD bluetooth codec, with less badwidth (which means quality), that is only supported by 4 headphones (2 Audio Technica, 2 of them LG, which are forgettable), when they get a much faster, better quality HD BT codec baked in the next Android, supported by dozens of high quality Sony products readily available on the market?

Are you suggesting that Google didn't do their math when choosing to work with Sony on this? C'mon, be serious .

 

[Sonic Defender]

 

   
We're talking about Android, and "near future" is a relative term. Android M is now on 31% of Android phones. Android N is at 3% and will take a couple of years to reach 30%. It may take 4 years before Android O is on a significant number of phones, which would finally motivate headphone manufacturers (besides Sony) to adopt LDAC.
 
Meanwhile, Qualcomm has already convinced multiple manufacturers to use aptX HD, something Sony has been unable to do with LDAC. For companies that already use aptX, it is a natural progression to aptX HD since it is backward compatible.

 



Are you suggesting that Google didn't do their math when choosing to work with Sony on this? C'mon, be serious

.

I don't know enough about the markets to have any real position on the question; however, it could be that Google is simply covering all the basis as opposed to promoting LDAC. Do we know for sure that Apt X HD won't also be baked into new Android OS versions?
 
Edit: it looks like both will be baked in
 
http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/03/21/feature-spotlight-android-o-looks-like-it-will-add-support-for-aptx-bluetooth-streaming/