Sony Hi-MD 1GB Minidisc
Jan 9, 2004 at 1:26 AM Post #76 of 111
Quote:

Originally posted by Fish Tank X
Oh. *Sucks up breath*

DAT IS DEAD!!

*exhales*

With direct WAV recording, and uploading of Mic recorded materials, DAT is *so* dead.


LOL...i don't think so. DAT offers 3 hrs of 16/48 recording. THREE HOURS of perfect quality recording...and these dds tapes cost $2-$3 tops. I own a dat recorder, Sony PCM M1, it blows away any other portable i currently own...i'll keep my judgment reserved for the incoming njb3, otherwise Sony has a lot of tinkering to do to get this new format in the hands of audiophiles and non-audiophiles. If they offer media larger than 1GB, then they'll have my attention (2GB, 4GB, etc etc).

When they offer a line in AND line out, then MD will be a worthy competitor vs. DAT.
 
Jan 9, 2004 at 4:00 PM Post #77 of 111
You also have to deal with magnetic roller heads (Diagonal at that) that *will* eventually wear out, track seeks, and everything else.


And Hi-MD should allow for about 2 hours of 16/48 lossless (My estimates run about 1HR53M) as well as optical/line in, which is all a serious recorder needs as most people doing recording are either going to use a front end (External A/D) or a preamp. Unless you're recording really loud, you're going to need more than a battery box to get decent results with line. (For minidisc anyways. I would expect much more of a PC-M1's internal preamp, so that same point isn't the same for DAT)

The PCM-1 is good. But you haven't told us how long it will record on a set of batteries. My guess is 5 hours, tops. (You and I both *know* how long it runs on a set of batteries. No need to drag it out to into the middle. Suffice to say.. )

And i'm 90% sure I can get a decent Hi-MD portable recorder, *And* deck with digital out cheaper than your PC-M1 costs new. (800$ last time I checked.) Ontop of that, I don't have to worry about the heads wearing out, dust, or uploading as if i'm recording through the crappy internal mic preamp (Damn you, sony) I can upload.

Sheez. If it isn't an origonal digital copy, it should be uploadable, regardless of where it's recorded.
 
Jan 9, 2004 at 8:36 PM Post #78 of 111
DAT may not be dead, but it's dying. Pros still use it (they've always used it) but with portable computer based recording rearing its head (like the Core Sound PDAudio - 24/192 recording in a PDA!) DAT is thoroughly trumped.
 
Jan 10, 2004 at 12:12 AM Post #79 of 111
Am I missing something? I'm a bit confused here. The way I read it, the Sony press release seems to imply that Hi-MD uncompressed PCM recordings can only be made via analog in! Is this true or not? Does anyone know for certain?

If Hi-MD cannot record uncompressed PCM via digital, then what's the point? I may bite if it allows for lossless digital recordings, but if not ... ipod here i come.
 
Jan 10, 2004 at 2:38 AM Post #80 of 111
It allows recording of PCM in any recording mode, I would imagine. Possibly even NetMD.

Translation of Sony Webpage.

Recording modes: *Hi-MD's mode of linear PCM
*ATRAC: MD's mode of SP Stereo/Mono
*ATRAC 3:MD's mode of LP2/Lp4
* Hi-MD's mode of 132/105/66
*ATRAC 3 plus: Hi-MD's mode of Hi-SP (256K/s)
Hi-LP (66K/s)/48K/s
 
Jan 10, 2004 at 3:48 AM Post #81 of 111
Quote:

Originally posted by Fish Tank X
You also have to deal with magnetic roller heads (Diagonal at that) that *will* eventually wear out, track seeks, and everything else.

And Hi-MD should allow for about 2 hours of 16/48 lossless (My estimates run about 1HR53M) as well as optical/line in, which is all a serious recorder needs as most people doing recording are either going to use a front end (External A/D) or a preamp. Unless you're recording really loud, you're going to need more than a battery box to get decent results with line. (For minidisc anyways. I would expect much more of a PC-M1's internal preamp, so that same point isn't the same for DAT)

The PCM-1 is good. But you haven't told us how long it will record on a set of batteries. My guess is 5 hours, tops. (You and I both *know* how long it runs on a set of batteries. No need to drag it out to into the middle. Suffice to say.. )

And i'm 90% sure I can get a decent Hi-MD portable recorder, *And* deck with digital out cheaper than your PC-M1 costs new. (800$ last time I checked.) Ontop of that, I don't have to worry about the heads wearing out, dust, or uploading as if i'm recording through the crappy internal mic preamp (Damn you, sony) I can upload.

Sheez. If it isn't an origonal digital copy, it should be uploadable, regardless of where it's recorded.


How long do these modern age MD recorders last? Two to three years tops, if your lucky. I think most MD users (like myself) are well aware that MD units are not built to last, especially a MD recorder...the head eventually dies out...and i bet much faster than a DAT portable that's well taken care of. I bought the M1 used on ebay for $375...works beautifully and is in great shape.

As for 16/48 recording with Hi-MD, i didn't read any comments from Sony about that...so let's leave the assumptions on the side for now. As for recording time...3 hrs+ is what the serious taper needs, not ~2 hrs. I don't tape festivals...those tapers that do have been converting to HD-based units and using laptops instead for longer taping times anyway. As for battery life, i haven't put the unit to that test yet, but i'm sure i will in due time.

As for taping via line in>battery box, i've been following this path with my DR7 and have been getting pretty solid results, so it works quite well IMHO. I taped one show with my M1>battery box and it sounded much cleaner and really liked the results.

So, regarding spending money on this new format, a good recorder will cost upwards of $400 then i will need a deck that has an optical out to convert to my soundcard (no one in their right mind would want to abuse a portable by using it's digi out, if it happened to have one). That will cost me quite a bit more than what i paid for my M1 and my Tascam DA20 ($150 used on ebay).

Granted DAT is being pushed aside by new technologies in the studio and i don't think MD or Hi-MD will be it. I will personally sit Hi-MD out until Sony releases larger sized media (if it happens) and prices drop. Once i get my Nomad i will be more than content with my recording devices since i will have 20 gigs to record my shows that upload via firewire or usb to my pc and clean up my shows on my pc.

Don't get me wrong, i kinda dig this new format, but i want to see larger sized media (if the format can support it)...then i'l be very interested in it. So, i got a question...do these units have built-in line in and line outs? Because i'm not seeing these features listed anywhere. Drop me a link if they have such info available for the first batch of units.
 
Jan 10, 2004 at 4:37 AM Post #83 of 111
Quote:

Originally posted by Helloween
How long do these modern age MD recorders last? Two to three years tops, if your lucky. I think most MD users (like myself) are well aware that MD units are not built to last, especially a MD recorder...the head eventually dies out...and i bet much faster than a DAT portable that's well taken care of. I bought the M1 used on ebay for $375...works beautifully and is in great shape.

As for 16/48 recording with Hi-MD, i didn't read any comments from Sony about that...so let's leave the assumptions on the side for now. As for recording time...3 hrs+ is what the serious taper needs, not ~2 hrs. I don't tape festivals...those tapers that do have been converting to HD-based units and using laptops instead for longer taping times anyway. As for battery life, i haven't put the unit to that test yet, but i'm sure i will in due time.

As for taping via line in>battery box, i've been following this path with my DR7 and have been getting pretty solid results, so it works quite well IMHO. I taped one show with my M1>battery box and it sounded much cleaner and really liked the results.

So, regarding spending money on this new format, a good recorder will cost upwards of $400 then i will need a deck that has an optical out to convert to my soundcard (no one in their right mind would want to abuse a portable by using it's digi out, if it happened to have one). That will cost me quite a bit more than what i paid for my M1 and my Tascam DA20 ($150 used on ebay).

Granted DAT is being pushed aside by new technologies in the studio and i don't think MD or Hi-MD will be it. I will personally sit Hi-MD out until Sony releases larger sized media (if it happens) and prices drop. Once i get my Nomad i will be more than content with my recording devices since i will have 20 gigs to record my shows that upload via firewire or usb to my pc and clean up my shows on my pc.

Don't get me wrong, i kinda dig this new format, but i want to see larger sized media (if the format can support it)...then i'l be very interested in it. So, i got a question...do these units have built-in line in and line outs? Because i'm not seeing these features listed anywhere. Drop me a link if they have such info available for the first batch of units.


If I didn't have tact, I would laugh. But why are there so many vintage R-50's and MT831's kicking around? I still haven't heard of a dead MZ-R1. I know people who have had them for 11-12 years.. still going strong, still recording. Any search on this forum will confirm that.

I understand your relluctance to place trust in modern MD units, but when was the last time you heard of a Panasonic MD's recording head failing? I personally, have never heard, or seen it. Neither have I seen a DR-7 or MT-770's recording head fail. And those are older units.

If you're lucky, all analog recorded material will be uploadable. And then we'll be in business.
 
Jan 10, 2004 at 5:10 AM Post #85 of 111
Oh. Minidisc likely coulnd't suport larger sizes (At most, 30%) without a laser change.

They're using the same laser for the origonal minidisc as they are for this one.

I think you could probably make a floppy sized version of the minidisc, which would likely hold about 4-5GB.. but it'd be larger..
 
Jan 10, 2004 at 5:42 AM Post #86 of 111
Hello,

Early MZ-1 adopter (Late-December 1992). Still going strong. Records, plays, seems every bit as good as the day I got it. Even the batteries still have life in them.

Best regards,

Paul
 
Jan 10, 2004 at 6:29 AM Post #88 of 111
120 mm is bigger than an MD though isn't it? I guess your point is that the current MD size is capable of discs larger than 1 GB isn't it?

Don't get me wrong 1GB is nice, but with how competitive the market is these days, it's really too bad that Sony hasn't brought these discs out as say 5GB.
 
Jan 10, 2004 at 2:50 PM Post #89 of 111
To summersize: (also posted on hydrogenaudio):

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/4270
http://www.minidisc.org/keep/Sony_Hi-MD_Spec.pdf
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/u...108%2Fsony1.htm
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/u...lp=ja_en&tt=url

- 100x transfer speed
- ATRAC3plus
- Backward compatible
- Jog Dial navigation system (scroll through playlists and songs)
- Upload function!
- Act as an USB mass storage device
- Finaly making use of USB power...
- Still good battery life, 30 hours of playback using just one "AA" battery (MZ-NH600D and MZ-NHF800)
- Existing MD media reformatted to 305MB! (80 mins disk)

Hi-MD compressions:
Linear PCM: 1.4Mbps [PCM]
ATRAC3plus: 256kbps [Hi-SP], 64kbps [Hi-LP], 48kpbs
ATRAC3: 132kbps, 105kbps, 66kbps

Avalaibility: April
Hi-MD blank: 7$
Devices prices: 400, 300, 250 and 200$

NYTime article: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/08/technolo...gewanted=2&8dpc

ATRAC3/+ vs MP3/WMA AB listening test
http://www.sony.net/Products/ATRAC3/tech
Listening test:
http://www.sony.net/Products/ATRAC3/tech/lab

No idea of which MP3 encoder they used, but it looks like the frequency is cut hard at 16khz :lol:

As for the one who says MD was already 300MB: That's absolutly not true, it's even lower, says, near 140mb, each frame waste about 20bytes to keep compatibility with SP only players (read MDLP track as silence)
I beleive this have been removed in Hi-MD since older unit wouldn't be able to read the disk
biggrin.gif
resulting in even more space and allowing the use of ATRAC3 105kpbs (105 was using the same ammount of space on disk as 132kpbs - i beleive)

Correct me if i'm wrong...
 
Jan 10, 2004 at 6:16 PM Post #90 of 111
Quote:

Originally posted by Fish Tank X
If I didn't have tact, I would laugh. But why are there so many vintage R-50's and MT831's kicking around? I still haven't heard of a dead MZ-R1. I know people who have had them for 11-12 years.. still going strong, still recording. Any search on this forum will confirm that.

I understand your relluctance to place trust in modern MD units, but when was the last time you heard of a Panasonic MD's recording head failing? I personally, have never heard, or seen it. Neither have I seen a DR-7 or MT-770's recording head fail. And those are older units.

If you're lucky, all analog recorded material will be uploadable. And then we'll be in business.


Laugh all you want, i'm referring to Type R MD recorders, what audiophile in their right mind would use a Atrac 4.0 unit to record a concert...not a single soul.

Also, i read over on t-station that you cannot upload PCM via the usb port...if that's true, then this new format is completely useless for tapers.

You should do some homework regarding what a taper's needs are, thanks.

A novice taper.
 

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