[Loud_TIGER]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim D The wording seems carefully chosen. To me it seems to say the following. Digital media can be uploaded if recorded initially via mic (analog). And that it acts as a storage device (but mentions no ability to playback other stored formats). This is unfortunately not much better than only allowing an analog output of recorded material. Also old MD's could be "formatted" to 300mbs because I believe that is the capacity they always had.

it'd be much speedier to "upload" the analog recordings as opposed to playing it back through analog into your sound card.

 

[matheis]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim D Digital media can be uploaded if recorded initially via mic (analog). And that it acts as a storage device (but mentions no ability to playback other stored formats). This is unfortunately not much better than only allowing an analog output of recorded material.

first of all, wow!!! first of all, what does it really matter if you can upload digitally recorded files to your computer? for the great majority of people, allowing digital uploads of analog recorded files will be a huge bonus over present md technology!!! one of the major draws of md is the plethora of wonderful live recording features. usb transfer was the only feature it was lacking for being the king of user-friendly consumer-level recording devices. now that it has usb-uploading, damn it's gonna be great

so, now we've got confirmation that it will have decent battery life, uploading abilities, and they will allow data transfers. couldn't you get around any music transfers the same way you can with the iriver flash players when using the manager firmware, ie. rename the files you want to transfer to another computer, load them onto the md as data, and upload them to the computer later on? anyway, i wouldn't care about that, as the nice thing about having removable media is that you don't have to worry so much about keeping music files on your computers - just record the music to a few mds and off you go.

the thing that's got me nervous is the atrac3plus. i honestly don't know much about it, but it doesn't sound the same thing as good old atrac. 132kbps?!?!? is this the new hi-sp?!?!? the old sp is SP = 292 Kb/s. that's what i want!!! let's hope the new hi-md formats don't compromise sound quality in comparison to the 'old' md format!

i also like that you can reformat old mds to twice their current capacity! that'll be cool!!! not much compared to 1gb, but 4-5 albums in lp2 mode would be pretty cool!!! i would need to worry about buying too many of hte new hi-md discs for awhile

later
nikolaus

 

[Watchdog]

Reformatting current MDs doesn't give you twice the capacity, but it is a significant improvement. The table Sony printed indicates a current 80 min disc is 177 MB and reformatted it will be 305 MB, so it's 1.72 times greater capacity.

So all the unopened blanks I have just became 137 minute discs in SP mode or 274 minutes in LP2 mode. Pretty nice, but once you reformat a disc you can't use it in your old equipment anymore, well unless you wanted to reformat it again and lose all the music.

I can see that musicians who were frustrated by the inability to upload in faster than real time will now be attracted to the format. They'll be able to record their own shows and upload them at high speed into a computer.

The USB power to the unit while connected will be nice as well.

I didn't like the absence of any mention of true SP downloads at faster than real time as well as no mention of what data rate HI-SP will be. Is HI-SP going to be wave or a lossless codec?

Reading the press release it sounds pretty likely that the new units will play uncompressed wave files, but I'd like a lossless format for obvious reasons.

The prices are attractive too. The portables are priced at roughly the same price points as the current 03 models i.e. the 800 series is roughly equivalent in price as are the top of the line models. The difference is no 400 or 500 series for the low end of the market. I'm guessing that's so retailers can blow out 03 models for under $200. I'm guessing in 05 they'll release 400 and 500 series models to fill in the $100 and $150 price points.

$7 for a blank 1GB disc. Not bad, I would have liked to see it around $5, but I'm relieved that it's not $15 or more as I feared it might be.

All I can say is that I'm glad I procrastinated on my purchase of a new MD deck and portable. I'll keep using my current equipment and likely look at getting one of the new units after they've been on the market for 6 - 9 months before I buy.

 

[IpaqMan]

With the news of the mic-in and upload capability, I will be an early adopter. The external drive feature along with usb self-powering is a big plus.

Why buy a 4gb hard drive MP3 player when for $35 you can have FIVE gb in removeable media along with an easily replaceable battery.

The $250 price point for the MZ-NHF800 recorder competes well against the $250 Minipod. For $250, you get a player, recorder, and multifunction radio with AM/FM/TV/Weather.

Why should a college student spend precious dollars for a Minipod or Ipod when for the same or less money, you can get a music player and a class/lecture recorder.

 

[Tim D]

I read the doc file and it mentioned linear-PCM recording which is pretty cool. The 132 bitrate cap for ATRAC3Plus seems very aggressive, and it would be interesting to hear the sound quality as we know how insufficient 128kbit mp3's are, and AAC's are just acceptable for portable. The doc also clearly mentioned MagicGate and OpenMG as well. It is interesting that they say that the linear-PCM recording is only *near* CD quality, so I wonder what freq and bit resolution it is or if it is some watermarking technique that does this. Since it has 1 Gig capacity and ability to record/playback linear-PCM, why couldn't it be even better than CD quality(it is already able to fit almost 2 CD's lossless)? If they are going to have all those copy-protection snafus, they definitely need to specify what exactly they mean by "recordings" and wheter it refers only to analog line/mic ins, or possible burns from Sonicstage, or direct digital dubbing.

Things that would definitely make me consider it is the ability for Sonicstage to "burn" linear-PCM, and if 132 ATRAC3Plus is just utterly amazing according to the claim that it is actually smaller bitrate but increased quality. Of course increased quality to what...Original Atrac3? SP? LP?

Here is a year old press release for their mp3/cd players which also sport ATRAC3plus with the same descriptions as far as I can tell.

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/3137

If it is what I remember as the codec being offered in Realplayer jukeboxes, sigh. Maybe someone already has heard Atrac3Plus as supplied in those last year models and can comment more.

 

[PodMan]

I have a few questions,

so can the new players read old minidisc recordings or do they have to be reformatted?

is ATRAC3+ 132kbps the highest it will go before the next step being at linear-PCM? is there a 256kbps mode or anything?

what bitrate exactly is the "Hi-SP" mode shown on the demo picture?

I have a whole bunch of mic recordings lying around on minidiscs, can I use the Hi-MD recorders to transfer them back to the computer or does that feature work with only recordings done by Hi-MD recorders? uploading for mic recordings is what I asked for most in the old md, this will be a great feature to me.

I like the new linear-PCM mode but at $7 a disc, I don't think I will be using it that often, at least not for one SP minidisc = one cd transfers like what I do now with my current cds. maybe for songs I really like though. Having the option is nice and gives credibility to Hi-MD if they decide it to market it as being the best in sound quality.

the new data mode is a nice addition, again helping to level the playing field with mp3 players.

Also, are digital amplifiers (more importantly the HD amplifier found in the E720) prevalent across Sony's new recorder line now that digital amplification is prevalent throughout Sharp, Kenwood, and Panasonic's product lines?

Finally, when is Sharp, Kenwood, and Panasonic joining in?

 

[PodMan]

...

 

[myself, aka me]

The new players can read old discs. I hope you can upload old mic recordings. Very awesome.

 

[FalconP]

Sounds like heaven to bootleggers. With my current MD unit I have to wrestle between recording time and sound quality. Now hopefully I can have both. The ability to upload analog-recorded material is good enough for me -- I can't "upload" my analog-recorded bootlegs with my Sharp recorder anyway.

On second thought... the claim for high battery life looks pretty worrisome. Hope Sony won't try to compromise the mic-preamp voltage.

 

[Watchdog]

Quote:

Originally posted by PodMan I have a few questions, so can the new players read old minidisc recordings or do they have to be reformatted? is ATRAC3+ 132kbps the highest it will go before the next step being at linear-PCM? is there a 256kbps mode or anything? what bitrate exactly is the "Hi-SP" mode shown on the demo picture? I have a whole bunch of mic recordings lying around on minidiscs, can I use the Hi-MD recorders to transfer them back to the computer or does that feature work with only recordings done by Hi-MD recorders? uploading for mic recordings is what I asked for most in the old md, this will be a great feature to me. I like the new linear-PCM mode but at $7 a disc, I don't think I will be using it that often, at least not for one SP minidisc = one cd transfers like what I do now with my current cds. maybe for songs I really like though. Having the option is nice and gives credibility to Hi-MD if they decide it to market it as being the best in sound quality. the new data mode is a nice addition, again helping to level the playing field with mp3 players. Also, are digital amplifiers (more importantly the HD amplifier found in the E720) prevalent across Sony's new recorder line now that digital amplification is prevalent throughout Sharp, Kenwood, and Panasonic's product lines? Finally, when is Sharp, Kenwood, and Panasonic joining in?

Discs don't have to be reformatted to be read by the new units, but reformatting gives additional playing time. If you reformat however, I highly doubt your old equipment can read that disc anymore, unless you reformat it back (if that's even possible).

Looks like there's going to be ATRAC 3 and ATRAC 3+. The limit for 3 is 132 kbps and for 3+ it will be 256 kbps. Old SP at 292 kbps seems to have disappeared and been replaced by HI-SP at 256 kbps.

Don't know about the ability to upload old recordings.

Yeah, I think I'll mainly use HI-SP provided it can be downloaded faster than real-time.

Sony has some models with digital amps, but I think it's limited.

Speculation on the T-Board is that the other manufacturers will get into the HI-MD game during 2005.

 

[Fish Tank X]

I don't know if anyone's picked up on this.. but...

*THIS THING OFFERS LOSSLESS!!!*

Yep, that's right. So your WAV's will make the jump to Hi-MD with pristine quality. 1GB means you can stuff 2 lossless albums on a single disc. 100 minutes of goodness.

Not only that, but it also acts as an external drive. I don't know about you, but an immeadatley recognizable 1GB external drive with 7$ blanks is hella impressive to me.

Not only that, but it's formatted to FAT. So it's no different than thumb drives.

All I want to see, is the return of the ability to record real time true-SP. If that's true, I could very well dub 8 hours of FLAC onto this thing overnight.

 

[Fish Tank X]

Oh. *Sucks up breath*

DAT IS DEAD!!

*exhales*

With direct WAV recording, and uploading of Mic recorded materials, DAT is *so* dead.

 

[Watchdog]

Quote:

Originally posted by Fish Tank X I don't know if anyone's picked up on this.. but... *THIS THING OFFERS LOSSLESS!!!* Yep, that's right. So your WAV's will make the jump to Hi-MD with pristine quality. 1GB means you can stuff 2 lossless albums on a single disc. 100 minutes of goodness. Not only that, but it also acts as an external drive. I don't know about you, but an immeadatley recognizable 1GB external drive with 7$ blanks is hella impressive to me. Not only that, but it's formatted to FAT. So it's no different than thumb drives. All I want to see, is the return of the ability to record real time true-SP. If that's true, I could very well dub 8 hours of FLAC onto this thing overnight.

Are you sure about lossless? They've confirmed HI-SP at 256 kbps and it sounds like full wave, but I haven't seen anything that says lossless will be supported.

 

[Dweebgal]

well, some peole say that they cant tell the differnce between SP and WAV (me being one of them)

but i think fish tank x was referring to it playing PCM, that being lossless by definition.

i dont think he meant lossless compression such as FLAC or monkey's audio

 

[Fish Tank X]

Yep.

Linear PCM = WAV

WAV is merely a file format for storing linear PCM information.

Edit:Linear PCM (LPCM) is an uncompressed audio format that is similar to CD audio, but with higher sampling frequencies and quantisations. LPCM offers up to 8 channels of 48kHz or 96kHz sampling frequency and 16, 20 or 24 bits per sample but not all at the same time. These values compare with 44.1kHz and 16 bits as used for CD audio. The maximum bit rate is 6.144 Mb/s, which is much higher than Dolby Digital or MPEG-2 coding. LPCM offers high quality (similar to DVD-Audio) but its high data rate leaves little bandwidth for video on a DVD video disc.