[wualta]

In fact, try not to pay more than 30-35 dollars for them, minus shipping. A couple of us have found good specimens for this much.

 

[Carl]

Someone needs to make a dedicated electret amplifier in the vein of the KGSS.

With a proper amp it might be intersting to see how well Stax and Sony electrets compare to full blown electrostatics.

 

[Tachikoma]

The Stax electrets will work with any kind of power amplifier I think, but from what I've read they can be damaged from bring overdriven. It doesn't make much sense to build a $1000 amp to drive $40 vintage headphones though, to be honest

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tachikoma The Stax electrets will work with any kind of power amplifier I think,

There are energisers that connect to power amps for both electrets and electrostatics, but they don't offer as good sound as you'd get from a dedicated amplifier.

Quote:

It doesn't make much sense to build a $1000 amp to drive $40 vintage headphones though, to be honest

Sure it does; as an experiment.

I want to know how much inferior electrets are to electrostatics.

 

[tyre]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Someone needs to make a dedicated electret amplifier in the vein of the KGSS.

Well, I have an "el-cheapo" DIY electrostatic/electret amp in the works, but it's not even remotely comparable to the KGSS.

 

[wualta]

First, a minor niggle: electret headphones are full-blown electrostats. You guys know that, but every time we shorthand it and write about "electrets vs. electrostatics", the newbies think they're fundamentally different, and get terribly confused. We should try to find a good quickie term to differentiate them so we know what's being talked about without giving the impression there's some difference in operating principle.

"tret-stat"...? I dunno. "Fixed-bias" vs. "externally-biased" ?

How are tret-stats inferior to "stat-stats"? Usually the bass and treble are rolled off. Remember, we're comparing 'trets, using no newer than 1987 tech, to present day 'stats, and even back in the day, 'trets were maybe half the cost of the cheapest 'stat-'stat, so the comparison's just a wee bit unfair. Then there's the inferior quality of an electret used as a diaphragm. 'Tret diaphragms aren't Mylar, which doesn't make a good electret but which makes the best diaphragms. Then there's thickness/mass: the best Stax 'tret, the SR-30 Pro, has a diaphragm twice as thick as the original Lambda's. Higher mass means the air load can't damp the diaphragm quite as well, and ultimate treble extension and transient response is affected. In practice, it just means the 'tret, once bass and treble EQ are applied, doesn't sound quite as crisp and effortless. Everything else is at least in the same ballpark.

 

[wualta]

As far as powering 'trets from a dedicated 'stat amp, I have the feeling you wouldn't hear a whole lot of difference, and the law of diminishing returns starts to bite. You can power the Stax SR-30 Pro from an SRM-1 Mk-2 Pro amp, as I have, and hear a sound that's smoother but not $300 better-- of course, if you already happen to own a Stax Pro-type "stat-stat", you probably have the amp already, so this is not a problem.

But there's no doubt that a greater amount of bass boost can be applied via the modest little transformer box and a good hefty amp with decent tone controls, so if you want to hear a 'tret go slam, you pretty much have to go that route. The cost of the "good hefty amp"? about the same as the dedicated Stax amp, so the choice is... well, a matter of choice. My advice? Buy and enjoy both if you can. A good integrated amp makes a great headphone amp for 'stats of all kinds and for regular headphones too. A dedicated Stax amp lets you hear your Stax 'stats at their smoothest, just not very loud or with lots of bass boost.

 

[Carl]

So if I had, say, a Rudistor Egmont, I could drive electrets from it without damaging them?

 

[ScubaSteve87]

wow all those stats and trets just confused me even more

 

[smeggy]

I have devised a cunning naming convention for the two types... I think we should call the big ones 'electrostatics' and the smaller ones 'electrets' waddaya think?

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl So if I had, say, a Rudistor Egmont, I could drive electrets from it without damaging them?

If it's got a Stax 6-pin jack, why not? EDIT: A Stax tret can fit either a 6-pin or 5-pin output.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubasteve87 wow all those stats and trets just confused me even more!

Aaaah, just get an AKG K501, then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy .. I think we should call the big ones 'electrostatics' and the smaller ones 'electrets' waddaya think?

Sorry, Charlie. Only the best-tasting tuna get to be StarKist!

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta If it's got a Stax 6-pin jack, why not?

As they're self biasing, it doesn't matter what bias the amp runs at, correct? Just ignore the biasing circuits in the amp, and just feed it the + and - signals for each channel? Sounds almost too easy...

 

[wualta]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl As they're self biasing, it doesn't matter what bias the amp runs at, correct?

That's correct.

Having said that, I must add that I've never tried to drive an electret 'phone from a Pro-type jack. It would be hard to do on a Stax amp, since the pin arrangement is different (6-pin versus 5-pin). [EDIT: It may be different, but it will fit. See post 30.]


Quote:

Just ignore the biasing circuits in the amp, and just feed it the + and - signals for each channel? Sounds almost too easy...

One of the reasons electret 'phones could be cheaper is that they could do away with the 300 volt supply and the cabling for applying bias to the diaphragm. Result: an electret 'phone has no wiring to the diaphragm (the bias pin is a dummy) and will ignore any bias voltage sent to it.

 

[Tachikoma]

Quote:

Having said that, I must add that I've never tried to drive an electret 'phone from a Pro-type jack. It would be hard to do on a Stax amp, since the pin arrangement is different (6-pin versus 5-pin)

The arrangement is different for a reason; pro-bias headphones are "reverse-compatible" while normal bias headphones aren't "forward-compatible". That pro bias voltage will probably fry any normal bias headphones in a few seconds

 

[wualta]

First let me correct a goof:
Quote:

Originally Posted by wualta Having said that, I must add that I've never tried to drive an electret 'phone from a Pro-type jack. It would be hard to do on a Stax amp, since the pin arrangement is different (6-pin versus 5-pin-- or indeed for five pins).

Stax electret 'phones use the PRO-type plugs (since they don't need bias voltage, there's no need for the sixth pin-- in fact, there's no need for five), so you can indeed plug a Stax electret 'phone into an output meant for PRO-bias big-Stax 'phones with no damage possible to the phones.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Tachikoma That pro bias voltage will probably fry any normal bias headphones in a few seconds.

But not an electret. And I don't think it would literally fry a regular low-bias 'stat, but there'd be a danger of arcing and diaphragm hitting the stator and other disasters just as much fun.