[Steven31]

Wireless technology is detrimental to our enjoyment of music. if you’ve only ever heard music played on a streaming platform through your headphones (in this case- no matter how expensive they may be) connected to your phone, or a mono phone speaker, or tv speakers, or cheap (sub $100) all-in-one hifi system and have never heard a non digital hifi separates setup you will be non the wiser what you’re missing out on and this post won’t make sense to you. The detriments modern technology introduces to music/audio reproduction includes streaming to your phone/dap/pc - and wireless headphones too. A simple fact that seems to have gotten lost in the times we live in.

 

[bagwell359]

ignore

 

[bagwell359]

Wireless technology is detrimental to our enjoyment of music. if you’ve only ever heard music played on a streaming platform through your headphones (in this case- no matter how expensive they may be) connected to your phone or a mono phone speaker or tv speakers or cheap (sub $100) all-in-one hifi system and have never heard a non digital hifi separates setup you will be non the wiser what you’re missing out on and this post won’t make sense to you. The detriments modern technology introduces to music/audio reproduction includes streaming to your phone/dap/pc - and wireless headphones too. A simple fact that seems to have gotten lost in the times we live in.

Anyways, I’m out of here, fellas
Have a good one!

There is much truth in this. But many don't know what came before. Don't know the value of it.

Lately I have explained the taste for bright or very bright headphones to people with very little exposure to high quality live and recorded music. It was boom boxes, IPOD's, cell phones, etc, that was the conduit.

That doesn't work for the craze for way overblown low bass however. That crowd is similar to the crowd that likes a certain music(s) and make no pretense to accuracy but strive for emotional/visceral impact intensifying the effect.

I'm in a small faction - listened to lots of high quality music live and recorded by the age of 15 (that was in 1972). I was already building circuits and kits by then. Got my first decent stereo in 1974. Sold and bought up an amazing amount of gear from 1975-82. Bought a lot after too. Was an avowed analog head complete with exotic tone arms, cartridges, turntables, step-ups all the way to 2015. In 2015 I found out from listening that the Schiit Gumby sound better or as good on standard CD's vs my vinyl collection in > 95% of the time on 40 compares.

I use two chains:

Qobuz->UAPP>LG v40>Gumby>Ragnarock 1

Camridge CXC>Gumby>Ragnarock 1

My Rag gives me the ability to play my 3 speakers and get away from the cans which I do seldom because my current room sucks with anything under 250 Hz.

There are a lot of pitfalls in audio playback. Lately that is happening on the digital side because that's where the money is. Look up "Bertragni" speakers someday - for a throwback to the old days.

 

[Nouvraught]

My samsung galaxy buds pro have better treble and bass extension and better soundstage than sennheiser hd 600. I prefer galaxy buds pro over the majority of headphones ive used lol. The majority of headphones are so tonally flawed that you might as well get studio monitors. The weakest link in your signal chain is your god awful measuring headphones.

 

[tjlindle]

Not sure if I'm understanding the OP properly but I think the analog sound is definitely something that a lot of people nowadays have either never heard or have no interest in. And it's a hard sell in a lot of cases because vinyl records for instance do have a wonderful warmth and musicality (well, if it's a good mix/press) but it can be hard to sell that to people because (a) records are expensive, (b) a rig of sufficient quality to make them sound their best can be VERY expensive, and (c) at the end of the day, pound for pound digital sources will usually have an edge in resolving or dynamics anyway due to the inherent drawbacks of the vinyl format. But once you appreciate the analog sound, that doesn't really matter because you value how it sounds different from digital sources.

As far as wireless goes, since Qobuz offers the ability to save tracks locally, I think it's a nonissue for the most part, but it is super annoying that on Android you can't access locally saved Qobuz tracks through UAPP. So you either have to stream or use the Android mixer...honestly I would rather stream in that case.

For wireless headphones I actually think the technology is better than purists give it credit for, the problem is just that most wireless stuff isn't tuned to audiophile tastes. But something that is textbook audiophile tuning and technicalities like the Ananda Bluetooth sounds amazing wireless as long as the source supports good codecs.

 

[Steven31]

Not sure if I'm understanding the OP properly but I think the analog sound is definitely something that a lot of people nowadays have either never heard or have no interest in. And it's a hard sell in a lot of cases because vinyl records for instance do have a wonderful warmth and musicality (well, if it's a good mix/press) but it can be hard to sell that to people because (a) records are expensive, (b) a rig of sufficient quality to make them sound their best can be VERY expensive, and (c) at the end of the day, pound for pound digital sources will usually have an edge in resolving or dynamics anyway due to the inherent drawbacks of the vinyl format. But once you appreciate the analog sound, that doesn't really matter because you value how it sounds different from digital sources.

As far as wireless goes, since Qobuz offers the ability to save tracks locally, I think it's a nonissue for the most part, but it is super annoying that on Android you can't access locally saved Qobuz tracks through UAPP. So you either have to stream or use the Android mixer...honestly I would rather stream in that case.

For wireless headphones I actually think the technology is better than purists give it credit for, the problem is just that most wireless stuff isn't tuned to audiophile tastes. But something that is textbook audiophile tuning and technicalities like the Ananda Bluetooth sounds amazing wireless as long as the source supports good codecs.

I think you got the jist of the point I was trying to make. But i'm not here to claim wireless audio devices are rubbish or that streaming platforms are rubbish, they are very convenient, but many people have either forgotten or don't know that there exists a better way of hearing your favourite music, if you want to hear every single detail in a recording, no matter how small, every nuance of an acoustical or live performance, then a good vinyl record player or (second best option) high end CD player connected to even just a half decent solid state analogue amp or even a tube amp (though I prefer solid state as I don't like the way tube amps colour/dilute the sound) or dac, that is then connected to your speakers or headphones, is a much, much better option. And in an effort to ensure every last bit of detail is preserved, you would have top class interconnects connected to each component. Or if you are REALLY serious about sound quality( as I was several years ago), you would use a pre-amp and power amp before the audio signal even gets to your speakers/headphones, this, as far as I am concerned,-is the ultimate way to listen to music. The difference is absurdly obvious, or at least it was in my case (with the equipment I used). Fast forward to today, and I have a usb powered desktop amp that I think is a good little amp that can power my headphones adequately, but I only bought it because (1) I need it and (2) it offers a much more linear, cleaner, flatter sound for when I produce/mix/master my music compared to the on board sound card in my Dell PC, which is heavily influenced and tuned by binaural virtual software. Sure, when I listen to music on Spotify or YouTube or even the uncompressed WAV files I have in Windows Media Player, it does sound good enough, but there's so much I am missing out on, compared to listening to the same music through the other kind of equipment I mentioned a few lines above. I remember the separates system I used to have (I only sold it because it was not practical), it affected me on a spiritual level, it was like enlightenment, revelatory. Well you won't get that with modern wireless devices and streaming music over the internet. I have never owned IEM's, would never buy wireless headphones and am not interested in a DAP, even if it's a Sony Walkman!
To me, that just seems like a waste of money, i'd rather use the money I have to expand my CD collection or Vinyl records (that reminds me, I still haven't gotten around to fixing my Pioneer PL-990 turntable). And i'm not a fan of balanced headphone cables either. Anyways, hopefully this helps you understand my point more. Thanks for your comment.

 

[Steven31]

My samsung galaxy buds pro have better treble and bass extension and better soundstage than sennheiser hd 600. I prefer galaxy buds pro over the majority of headphones ive used lol. The majority of headphones are so tonally flawed that you might as well get studio monitors. The weakest link in your signal chain is your god awful measuring headphones.

Well, headphones certainly have their uses. I am definitely more a fan of speakers than headphones. I was lucky that for 16 years I lived in a house that allowed me to listen to the speakers (i've owned too many different makes and models to count) I had, sometimes up to 6 hours a day, at high volumes, so I have plenty of listening time and experience with speakers. I know what they can do, and I indeed think that they are superior in every way, to headphones. But I don't consider the thousands i've spent on headphones, over the last 12 years or so, as a waste of money. It has been a very educational experience over the years for me, listening between the two (speakers v headphones) and comparing. I think the best thing about headphones is the intimacy. It can be a very intimate experience listening with headphones, I love listening late at night, in a darkened room (with the only light source coming from my TV). It enhances the experience and allows my mind and attention to fully focus on the music. But I would also agree that the majority of headphones have some sort of flaw in their sound signature, truly I get where you are coming from. I understand. But speakers aren't perfect in this regard either.
Thanks for your comment and I will check out that channel, an interesting take on headphones indeed!

 

[Steven31]

There is much truth in this. But many don't know what came before. Don't know the value of it.

Lately I have explained the taste for bright or very bright headphones to people with very little exposure to high quality live and recorded music. It was boom boxes, IPOD's, cell phones, etc, that was the conduit.

That doesn't work for the craze for way overblown low bass however. That crowd is similar to the crowd that likes a certain music(s) and make no pretense to accuracy but strive for emotional/visceral impact intensifying the effect.

I'm in a small faction - listened to lots of high quality music live and recorded by the age of 15 (that was in 1972). I was already building circuits and kits by then. Got my first decent stereo in 1974. Sold and bought up an amazing amount of gear from 1975-82. Bought a lot after too. Was an avowed analog head complete with exotic tone arms, cartridges, turntables, step-ups all the way to 2015. In 2015 I found out from listening that the Schiit Gumby sound better or as good on standard CD's vs my vinyl collection in > 95% of the time on 40 compares.

I use two chains:

Qobuz->UAPP>LG v40>Gumby>Ragnarock 1

Camridge CXC>Gumby>Ragnarock 1

My Rag gives me the ability to play my 3 speakers and get away from the cans which I do seldom because my current room sucks with anything under 250 Hz.

There are a lot of pitfalls in audio playback. Lately that is happening on the digital side because that's where the money is. Look up "Bertragni" speakers someday - for a throwback to the old days.

I think you hit the nail on the head. You seem to understand where i'm coming from.
I googled those speakers and they look very interesting indeed. I wonder how much bass they produce. They don't seem to have very big cabinets. Fascinating stuff.

 

[bagwell359]

I think you hit the nail on the head. You seem to understand where i'm coming from.
I googled those speakers and they look very interesting indeed. I wonder how much bass they produce. They don't seem to have very big cabinets. Fascinating stuff.

Yes interesting idea but they sound quite awful. Looks like a recent wave of interest in them.

I'm amazed at the amount of great speakers under 1.5k these days.

 

[JadeEast]

Wireless technology is detrimental to our enjoyment of music.

Despite how much I like a full analog turntable, tube amp pre and power amp, to sensitive speaker set up - I can't listen to it on the bus, out for a walk, at the beach, pack it a bag to listen on an airplane or in a hotel. That means I can listen to music in many more places more conveniently and enjoy it more often. Streaming services let me sample and discover a wider range of music and styles than I would if I'm limited to analog physical uncompressed media. While they may not offer the "ultimate" in playback experience the loss of performance is a fair trade off for increased variety of music access and convince of playback that, for myself, enhance my enjoyment of music over all.

 

[Steven31]

Despite how much I like a full analog turntable, tube amp pre and power amp, to sensitive speaker set up - I can't listen to it on the bus, out for a walk, at the beach, pack it a bag to listen on an airplane or in a hotel. That means I can listen to music in many more places more conveniently and enjoy it more often. Streaming services let me sample and discover a wider range of music and styles than I would if I'm limited to analog physical uncompressed media. While they may not offer the "ultimate" in playback experience the loss of performance is a fair trade off for increased variety of music access and convince of playback that, for myself, enhance my enjoyment of music over all.

That's a very good point. please forgive my bias, I am not a perfectionist (and i'm also a bit of a hobbit and don't go out much in this crazy world, which also probably contributes to my lack of appreciation for the convenience of certain technologies) but I do take a somewhat purist approach to audio and music listening. I admit that I do enjoy listening to streaming platforms such as Spotify and YouTube by means of a TP-Link 4G router (i'm too poor to afford proper broadband at the moment), with my headphones connected to my humble desktop amp connected via usb to my Windows PC, and I don't even have a portable DAC/amp for my iphone 7 yet enjoy listening with my Sennheiser HD206 which I connect to my iphone via a simple audio jack that doesn't have an amplifier, but because I know of the possibilities of what high-end amps/power amps/CD Players and equipment can do, it underwhelms me compared to the latter type of equipment. I used to own an old Linn LK140 power amp, which was around £3,500 when it was brand new around 1991 or so (I bought it second hand for £300 in 2013). This amp was small but weighed a ton, I tell ya! there was no digital circuitry inside it, just analogue, and it just had 1 analogue input and output and 4 - 8 ohm speaker terminals, and I would connect it to the powerful headphone output on the Marantz CD5005 I had at that time also, using an analogue RCA Y cable, and bought a manual switch box that had a headphone input, to connect to the Linn LK140 output, so that I could hear what the Linn amp could do to my headphones, and i'll tell you what - it was better than any dedicated headphone amp/DAC I had. It totally transformed my headphones. So I guess this is why i'm biased and swear towards a certain way of listening. Thanks for your comment.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

If you like distortion, that's fine. Just don't go and call it objectively better.

 

[Steven31]

If you like distortion, that's fine. Just don't go and call it objectively better.

Huh? i'm not sure I understand?

 

[Steven31]

If you want a concert in your living room (or whatever your listening room is-your “head room ) then look no further than this kind of setup:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304045387628?var=0&amdata=enc:1289pnlhwSHahAqp2iga8cA67&&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&siteid=3&campid=5338744120&customid=jkp_EAIaIQobChMI8qCbqcXh8wIVmK3tCh0jrACQEAQYBCABEgLE-PD_BwE&toolid=10001&mkevt=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8qCbqcXh8wIVmK3tCh0jrACQEAQYBCABEgLE-PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
For those who don’t know, the above kind of setup truly is the ultimate way of listening to music, if you want to hear every single bit of audible information contained on a compact disc, cassette tape, vinyl record or uncompressed audio codec file (FLAC, ALAC, WAV, WMA,ATRAC, or whatever codec you chose to listen to). You will even hear things the artist might not have intended to be in their music.

This

or this

is distortion.

 

[bagwell359]

And i'm not a fan of balanced headphone cables either. Anyways, hopefully this helps you understand my point more.

I missed that comment. What's wrong with balanced cables? I use only balanced in my equipment, and the balanced cables for headphones. Less noise than SE connections, and my amp puts out quite a bit more than SE - a big plus for my planars. .