[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose We have to understand that Grado is a very small company, just 17 people if I remember correctly. It does not have the industrial strength of some much much larger companies. When I look at the Grado product line, I see many parts being reused over and over again. That is good, because a small company needs to keep things simple. I don't understand why the original poster calls the company lack of innovation. Grado takes a simple basic design and keeps improving it by changing little things. At SR225 it really reaches a sweet spot. SR225 is a reference headphone for rock and pop. But one cup of tea cannot suit everyone's taste, so Grado evolved higher-end models which have different flavors. Now Grado comes in metal and wood flavor. On the side Grado finds time to develop additional flavors through collaboration with other businesses such as Allesandro series, PS-1 and HF-1. I have not seen a more innovative headphone designer than Mr. Grado himself. I would much rather see Mr. Grado devising new headphone flavors, rather than trying to come up with a classy wooden box to please some RS-1 customers and raise the price at the same time. Now some customers wonder, if all Grado headphones look so similar, why the prices are so different. Well, Mr. Grado is not going to reveal how each headphone really differs, since that is his secret. Moreover, audio equipment is priced according to sonic attributes rather than cost. If a designer can find a way to make a $200 headphone sound like a $500 dollar headphone by adding a $30 part, he is entitled to charging $500, because the extra profit is an award for his ingenuity. Grado is overpriced? That really depends on how much one appreciates the Grado house sound. At a recent meet I discovered that many companies offer excellent headphones that would please me with classical and jazz. But only Grado's house sound fits what I want on rock/pop reocrdings. With Grado one can adjust the tightness of the headband and change the pads easily. Tha is already more customizable than many other headphones. Headphone comfort is also a personal thing, and how can Grado please all customers on that? I believe the reason that many people complain about Grado's comfort is because they there is no real alternative on the market. These people want Grado sound, and can't find a comparable sound else where. So they are forced to live with a headphone uncomfortable for them. For a classical lover if K501 is not comfy, he can switch to HD600 or DT880 or ATH-W1000 or Stax. Grado sound to my ears is not neutral. And I believe Grado heapdphones are designed to sound fun with certain types of music to certain ears. From the huge enthusiasm recently seen with HF-1, I don't see much of a need for Grado to change its business model.

Very well said.
Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver Don’t change anything Mr. John Grado. Your doing a Great Job and Keep Up the Great Work. This Stupid. A bunch on Nobodies, who don’t know squat about business or how to run a successful company telling a Successful businessman how to do what he’s already doing. Head-Fi could drop off the map tomorrow and it probably wouldn’t effect Grados bottom line one bit. Now back to your regularly scheduled delusions. Mitch

Change is not good donkey

 

[mahlerfan]

I've only heard the SR-60-- sounded fine, comfy, durable-- what else is there?

I'm actually fine with plastic casings-- plastic headphones last for years alright, only had trouble with the Senn 280pro. And plastic headphones have the perk of being light. But some of the other grado's are made out of what aluminum, and some others wood. I think that the driver is more important than the casing by alot.

I actually liked the box my sr-60s came in because I just opened it and put the headphones on my head!

I hate those sealed plastic bubble things that you have to bust out a knife or scissors to open.

That being said, I'm no grado fanboy. I frankly am baffled why this board has so many grado vs senn threads. There are other brands afterall!

 

[1967cutlass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jashugan I think its quite funny that when someone thinks, in all honesty, that some things which have nothing to do with sound quality/signature should be bettered by Grado, most people here defending Grado are completely one step aside the whole discussion. If this thread should be locked, its because those people didn't understand the point and are totally thread crapping, and I wouldn't be surprise to see as a reply to this post something along the lines of "if you dont like Grado, DONT BUY THEM!!!!" or "start your own headphone company then!!!!". If you can't be bothered to read fully the posts of other people here and understand their point of view why are you even posting in this thread to begin with??? I'm with Elephas on this one, and Mr. Grado, if you found my opinions offenssive to you personally, please go right ahead and sue

Exactly. Once a moderator alludes to legal action from our "online opinions" I've had enough.

 

[RickG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1967cutlass Exactly. Once a moderator alludes to legal action from our "online opinions" I've had enough.

Can you point me to that post? I'm not saying it's not there, I'm just having trouble locating it.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickG Can you point me to that post? I'm not saying it's not there, I'm just having trouble locating it.

Maybe he's confusing it with either-

1)A non-mod saying that, or...
2)A mod mentioning that some businesses threatened that upon our members (which has happened on a few occassions - don't worry folks, Jude has our back!)

But I don't remember ever reading that a mod threatened a member saying that they were in a legal grey area. A mod wouldn't do that - they'd just pull the post and close the thread, it's far easier.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1967cutlass "....Here we have a $200 headphone that uses a pleather headband that couldn't have cost more than $1-$5 to make. Given that bulk cable costs little, and the materials involved in this headphones construction are common and cheap, why is is that other companies are putting out vastly superior products for less? Should a different cable, driver, and mesh grill mark a 130$ price difference between the sr-60 and sr-225? Why does grado ship their headphones with only bowl pads when many people would prefer other ones that would cost the same or less to produce? Why can't Grado secure the cable inside the driver enclosure or make something to stop the cups from rotating? Why would Grado sell their flagship headphones in a PAPER box? When everyone admits the design could be improved, even to the point that MANY people do their OWN modifications, why hasn't anything changed? In my opinion, Grado headphones are overpriced (see above), but why the design has not changed to reflect the wants of consumers is an even more annoying issue. It shouldn't work like this, but it does because people KEEP PAYING for this level of quality (then proceed to complain about it a lot of the time). To me, I see a lack of innovation on Grado's part that is being enabled by consumers that will settle less than they deserve.

Now my question and why did you get them in the first place? Sound quality? I'm sure this was not the main reason, as you stated above, you could find a lot better done headphones that sound better and are cheaper (IMO even better than the two Grado flagships of all times) so my suggestion is, do the same as I did, I do not like the look, construction, comfort, and sound of the Grado headphones, so I simply do not get them, and do not reco them to anybody....simple as that....

 

[1967cutlass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickG Can you point me to that post? I'm not saying it's not there, I'm just having trouble locating it.

Sorry, my mistake, GsFerrari isn't a moderator...for some reason I thought he was.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1967cutlass Sorry, my mistake, GsFerrari isn't a moderator...for some reason I thought he was.

OMG!!!!

 

[1967cutlass]

Ok, I'm stepping out now. What discussion that was going on is completely over.

 

[elmoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller Now my question and why did you get them in the first place? Sound quality? I'm sure this was not the main reason, as you stated above, you could find a lot better done headphones that sound better and are cheaper (IMO even better than the two Grado flagships of all times) so my suggestion is, do the same as I did, I do not like the look, construction, comfort, and sound of the Grado headphones, so I simply do not get them, and do not reco them to anybody....simple as that....

You're kinda off topic here. The man has been constantly arguing that he LIKES the Grado sound and bought his Grados because of that very sound signature, what he doesnt like has nothing to do with sound quality, and overall, even if he dislikes some things, he would still buy Grados because of their sound signature. That's however, out of subject here, we're talking about what could be bettered in terms of build/prices/boxing, this conversation has nothing to do with sound quality, because if it did, noone would be having this discussion in the first place, as there would be no point to it at all.

If you dont understand people's posts and/or can't bother fully reading them, AVOID REPLYING TO THE THREAD, because all you're doing is thread crapping and its a real pain in the ***** already.

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jashugan The man has been constantly arguing that he LIKES the Grado sound and bought his Grados because of that very sound signature, what he doesnt like has nothing to do with sound quality, and overall, even if he dislikes some things, he would still buy Grados because of their sound signature. That's however, out of subject here, we're talking about what could be bettered in terms of build/prices/boxing, this conversation has nothing to do with sound quality, because if it did, noone would be having this discussion in the first place, as there would be no point to it at all. If you dont understand people's posts and/or can't bother fully reading them, AVOID REPLYING TO THE THREAD, because all you're doing is thread crapping and its a real pain in the ***** already.

Not trying to offend anyone here. Does "the man" refer to 1967cutlass?
Did 1967cutlass say he likes the Grado sound? Let me quote his #1 post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1967cutlass Let's use the sr-225 for example. Here we have a $200 headphone that uses a pleather headband that couldn't have cost more than $1-$5 to make. Given that bulk cable costs little, and the materials involved in this headphones construction are common and cheap, why is is that other companies are putting out vastly superior products for less?

If one interprets that as: 1967cutlass likes Grado sound, then I can only say he is a more imaginative person than I am. BTW, DT990 normally sells for more than SR225 ($200),and just because 1967cutlass got a good deal on DT990 (may even be used) does not qualify DT990 as a (I quote) "vastly superior product for less." First DT990 does not sell for less. Second, DT990 and SR225 sound vastly different, but which is better depends on preference and music. The comment "why is that other companies are putting out vastly superior products for less?" should be reserved for a product like Bose's Triport, not a Grado, IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1967cutlass It shouldn't work like this, but it does because people KEEP PAYING for this level of quality (then proceed to complain about it a lot of the time). To me, I see a lack of innovation on Grado's part that is being enabled by consumers that will settle less than they deserve.

Again, this sounds like the kind of criticism better suited for Bose than Grado. It implies that most Grado customers are too ill-informed to know what product quality they should deserve for their hard-earned cash. Stangely enough, satisfied Grado customers on this forum happen to include some of the best-informed headphone enthusiasts in the world. And this is exactly why the original post has been ill-received by many people--it is almost an insult on their audio intelligence.

 

[aaroncort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueCan I'd rather see "full woodied" HF-2's for $300. I'd also like to see HD-650's for $300. That ain't gonna happen either. -Patrick "Does anyone have a set of Omega II's for sale for $300?"

You can buy hd650's 300 bucks if you watch amazon long enough. I got my pair for $310 including shipping brand new.

 

[elmoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose Not trying to offend anyone here. Does "the man" refer to 1967cutlass? Did 1967cutlass say he likes the Grado sound? Let me quote his #1 post: If one interprets that as: 1967cutlass likes Grado sound, then I can only say he is a more imaginative person than I am. BTW, DT990 normally sells for more than SR225 ($200),and just because 1967cutlass got a good deal on DT990 (may even be used) does not qualify DT990 as a (I quote) "vastly superior product for less." First DT990 does not sell for less. Second, DT990 and SR225 sound vastly different, but which is better depends on preference and music. The comment "why is that other companies are putting out vastly superior products for less?" should be reserved for a product like Bose's Triport, not a Grado, IMHO. Again, this sounds like the kind of criticism better suited for Bose than Grado. It implies that most Grado customers are too ill-informed to know what product quality they should deserve for their hard-earned cash. Stangely enough, satisfied Grado customers on this forum happen to include some of the best-informed headphone enthusiasts in the world. And this is exactly why the original post has been ill-received by many people--it is almost an insult on their audio intelligence.

So maybe he used a bit of a strong word here, or maybe he simply thinks that the dt990 is superior in terms on sound to the sr225, does that mean in ANY way that he doesnt like the grado sound?

No, it doesnt. So stop thread crapping already and let the people who wanna discuss this discuss it in peace without getting all your panties in a twist.

If you think that by saying the dt990 is vastly superior to the sr225 hes insulting your audio intelligence, then you my friend have issues. Get real.

 

[1967cutlass]

Sigh- I'll clear this up. By superior I am referring to build and material quality. I have never made reference to sound quality because that is subjective and irrelevant to my point. If you disagree that dt990's for example are put together better and with higher quality materials than Grado sr-225's then you have not actually used them.

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1967cutlass Sigh- I'll clear this up. By superior I am referring to build and material quality. I have never made reference to sound quality because that is subjective and irrelevant to my point. If you disagree that dt990's for example are put together better and with higher quality materials than Grado sr-225's then you have not actually used them.

Let's say there are three ways to judge a headphone, from most to least important:
1. Sound Quality
2. Utility
3. Aesthetics

To me aesthetics is really not important. Only Sound Quality and Utility matters. You said we should not discuss the sound quality here. In your #1 post, you don't seem to mention any specific shortcoming in utility (comfort, fit, reliability, etc.) except for the cup rotation problem, which I don't have on my SR-225, so I don't know what that means. So you are just complaining that Grado headphones look cheap and come in cheap packaging? What's the big deal about the aesthtics of a headphone as long as the sound and the utility is good? To me the answer is no big deal. Do you think there is any major problem with Grados in terms of utility?