some thoughts about bb insignia receiver.

[music_man]

first off it is not really a receiver. it is configured internally as an integrated amp and tuner. that is amazing for this price. it has a toroidal psu. again,amazing for the price. as it turns out, it works fine with a sub y'd to the amp in/outs.

now the bad.

the headphone output is worse than most receivers. not that any are particularly good.
the unit is noisy. it hisses at any level, more as the volume goes up. the digital volume control has "artifacts" only when adjusting volume. therefore, one could not enjoy using this as a preamp to a headamp.

the tuner is not very sensitive at all. it can only lock on the two closest stations. the others are static in mono. to be fair i am only using a 5' dipole. however, a walkman can do better better in this room.

i could not see anyone being happy with this powering floor speakers that cost over $300.

this is just like the insignia speakers deal. it is as good as any $300 sony,denon,pioneer,yamaha etc. receiver and it is usually under $100.

a nad or cambridge is better, but not night and day better.

there is something very intresting about this receiver. i won't go into details but it is easily explainable.

i am powering very high end,very small, super efficient bookshelfs with this.
in this configuration at low volume other than hearing some slight hiss with my ear pressed to the tweeters, this receiver will almost compete with a $2,300 integrated amp.

just as we figured out who made the insignia speakers, this is who is making this receiver. http://www.aivin.com.cn/200511/engli...p?ArticleID=87 click >CANCEL< when it asks you to install the language pack! or it will take 20mb out of your hd.

music_man

 

[tjohnusa]

Does that reciever have a phono input (with phono preamp) on it? Is it remote controlled? I have A coworker looking for something "cheap" that requires these two things.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man first off it is not really a receiver. it is configured internally as an integrated amp and tuner. that is amazing for this price. it has a toroidal psu. again,amazing for the price. as it turns out, it works fine with a sub y'd to the amp in/outs. now the bad. the headphone output is worse than most receivers. not that any are particularly good. the unit is noisy. it hisses at any level, more as the volume goes up. the digital volume control has "artifacts" only when adjusting volume. therefore, one could not enjoy using this as a preamp to a headamp. the tuner is not very sensitive at all. it can only lock on the two closest stations. the others are static in mono. to be fair i am only using a 5' dipole. however, a walkman can do better better in this room. i could not see anyone being happy with this powering floor speakers that cost over $300. this is just like the insignia speakers deal. it is as good as any $300 sony,denon,pioneer,yamaha etc. receiver and it is usually under $100. a nad or cambridge is better, but not night and day better. there is something very intresting about this receiver. i won't go into details but it is easily explainable. i am powering very high end,very small, super efficient bookshelfs with this. in this configuration at low volume other than hearing some slight hiss with my ear pressed to the tweeters, this receiver will almost compete with a $2,300 integrated amp. just as we figured out who made the insignia speakers, this is who is making this receiver. http://www.aivin.com.cn/200511/engli...p?ArticleID=87 click >CANCEL< when it asks you to install the language pack! or it will take 20mb out of your hd. music_man

Insignia is BB generic line..

 

[music_man]

it has a remote that is actually pretty good. it does not have a phono pre.

kool bubba, you had to quote my whole post to say that? it is not generic, insiginia is bb's house brand. they are products made by many companies in china and with the insignia lable stuck on them liscensed to bb.

the products tend to be very good for the money because of the chinese economy. you could look at a $400 two chan sony,yamaha,pioneer,denon at bb and it is no better than this insignia. above that price integrated amps will generally be much better than this. except as i mention below.

i am surprised no one wanted to know how it can be almost as good as a $2,300 bryston integrated amp under very specific circumstances. i am waiting for someone to ask

music_man

 

[infinitesymphony]

Just curious... Does the manual specify the total harmonic distortion (THD), signal-to-noise ratio (SNR), or the dynamic range?

 

[soundboy]

I have 2 stereo integrated amps, a Cambridge Audio A500 and a TEAC A-1D, that cost me $250.00 and $175.00 respectively. New and included shipping. If you look around, there are good deals on integrated amps.

However, I still wonder how good is the Insignia receiver when compared to either the Cambridge or the TEAC?

I would expect the Bryston to have much more power reserve when pushed. On the other hand, one easy way to (possibly) improve the sound of the Insignia is to replace the jumpers between the pre-outs and the main-ins.

 

[music_man]

well, you just touched on why this is nearly indistinguishable from the bryston for me. i have the volume at about 1/8 of the way. at that level it is able to have very good headroom. i am using super efficient little speakers that are a very easy load.

it is not really a great receiver. however, the manner in which i am using this setup simply does not require a great receiver. the preamp is not too bad which is what counts for how i am using it.

i will say it is pretty close to the cambridge 540a. if you consider it to have the same wattage as the cambridge. the 640a is better. the fact that you can sometimes buy it for $75(as did i) and the 540a is $399 without a tuner.... you do the math.

the fact that it has a torroid at this price(and a large one) is fairly amazing. i had to look twice, i thought it might be a double fudge torroid lol.it also has darlington transistors. this is why when i am running it at 10 watts rms it will compete with nearly anything. the voltage it can put out at 10 watts is tremendous.

s/n is only 85. for this unit i would say that stinks. however, remember that many high end amps are around that.

the tweeters do hiss at idle only. it is only with my ear pressed against them.
i can live with that.

the thd also is rather poor. again, remember that they measured this in such a manner as to show a big rms number. using 10 watts and leaving the rest to headroom the thd looks a whole lot better. i think it sounds fine at very low output. at higher output on a harder load it falls apart. it will blow away a mini system for the bedroom at low volume given an easy load to drive.
i feel the need to scope it now. consider it a very good 20 watt amp or a pretty lousy 100 watt amp. real 100 watt amps cost serious money. the average bb shopper sees the big number and knows none the better. folks like us might find a different use for this. i did.

of course i am hooking the bryston back up. even if under these circumstances it does not sound much better than the insignia, it still says "bryston". ok, so i am a snob

music_man

 

[music_man]

i put back on the bryston. the insignia is packed up for a gift. a nice gift indeed.

now that i have a/b'd the insignia and bryston twice i cannot tell a difference really. the key issue here is whisper volume on a very easy load. it is not that the bryston is not so good either. the bryston is much better than the insignia. it is a engineering lesson going on here. i measured 53db at one meter. that is not even close to these speakers efficiency at 1 watt! truthfully if that is as hard as you are going to drive your speakers the insignia is as good as any amp/preamp. the tuner still stinks but i only use one station nearby.

this does not mean that a walkman can power $8,000 mini speakers.
it has to be a somewhat clean preamp and an amp with tons of headroom left in it. the insignia can acomplish both of those feats under these circumstances. again, if you push this insignia it falls apart. whereas, the bryston will blow down my entire home if it wanted to.

so if you want some background/elevator music pumping through high end little speakers this is the deal. for a bedroom system, even if one was only to have $1,000 speakers this thing will just smash any mini system.


i also wanted to mention two things. to the poster that said better "jumpers" between the amp/preamp would make a difference, they are correct. get some 2 inchers in the $30 range and you are set.

my receiver also smelled real bad. it is either the potting on the xformer or the heatsink grease. that is not an outgassing capacitor smell. the poster that had his shortly "blow up" after the smell occured most likely encountered a coincedence not related to the smell itself.

music_man

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man it has a remote that is actually pretty good. it does not have a phono pre. kool bubba, you had to quote my whole post to say that? it is not generic, insiginia is bb's house brand. they are products made by many companies in china and with the insignia lable stuck on them liscensed to bb. the products tend to be very good for the money because of the chinese economy. you could look at a $400 two chan sony,yamaha,pioneer,denon at bb and it is no better than this insignia. above that price integrated amps will generally be much better than this. except as i mention below. i am surprised no one wanted to know how it can be almost as good as a $2,300 bryston integrated amp under very specific circumstances. i am waiting for someone to ask music_man

Whats the big deal. I said what I had to say regardless of how lengthy your post was. Yes, I know about Insignia. I work for BB..We all call it generic BB product at work. If you feel the wording is incorrect thats fine. I know of cheap chinese companies that make up the Insignia brand. Orion comes to mind. Not sure about Audio, but Insignia HDTV's are really bad.. IMO Insignia caters to Joe sixpack who is more interested in saving money then good sound/video quality..

 

[coolshot]

two things i could care less about:

low volume & and high effecientcy. I dunno bout you but i wanna blast my system especially when im hosting a house party. Maybe hook up a pair of turn tables and nice floor standers.

 

[music_man]

haha.

i actually noticed the preamp has some bleed through between channels.

yes, it is cheap. made cheaply to boot. even pretty poor quality.
there are instances where all this would not make a difference(as i mentioned above) .

still, some of the components in it only show up in pretty decent products.

i do find it as good as all the receivers at bb. this is because all the receivers at bb stink though. lol.

music_man

 

[music_man]

a whole is not always equal to the sum of it's parts.

all the sony's,denons,yamahas,pioneers etc. i said were a better value remains true. as long as you only listen at 55-60db at 1 meter with 90+ efficiency small volume bookshelfs. just like i said.

even though it has darlingtons and a torroid, every receiver in the $200 to $500 range at bb from a namebrand will beat this at "reasonable" levels. these other receivers all have 'e' or 'r' core xformers and ic amp sections or basic transistor stages. all of them sound better when used as most people would intend. i pointed this out a long time ago here in a post about "torroids".

the way most people would expect to use a receiver "rated" at 100wpc rms will almost gurantee enough distortion to blow your speakers. even if you pushed it to 50wpc rms i would be worried.

the bryston actually made me decide to listen at a reasonable level again. the insignia could not do that without the risk of damage. both to my speakers and ears.

i wanted to stress that it is a good 20wpc rms receiver. it is also a terrible 100wpc rms receiver.

music_man

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

Doesn't every receiver/amp sound pretty much the same at low volumes?

 

[music_man]

that was exactly my point! i am glad someone took the time to read between the lines. the respective men and boys of receivers are not seperated untill you ask of them to supply some decent power.

actually, it was not just "very" low volume at work here. it was also very small very efficent loudspeakers.

a $75 receiver does not compete with the bryston integrated amp if you expect any reasonable volume level.

now you all know what i was trying to say.

this theoretically also would apply to headphone amps. for instance, very efficient cans supplied with 5mw. they would all pretty much sound the same at that level i'd think.

of course not many people care to listen to music at volumes that low.
i do to fall asleep. that is why i mentioned this. i would not really want to stay awake and listen to the insignia for any period of time lol.

music_man

 

[soundboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man that was exactly my point! i am glad someone took the time to read between the lines. the respective men and boys of receivers are not seperated untill you ask of them to supply some decent power. actually, it was not just "very" low volume at work here. it was also very small very efficent loudspeakers. a $75 receiver does not compete with the bryston integrated amp if you expect any reasonable volume level. now you all know what i was trying to say. this theoretically also would apply to headphone amps. for instance, very efficient cans supplied with 5mw. they would all pretty much sound the same at that level i'd think. of course not many people care to listen to music at volumes that low. i do to fall asleep. that is why i mentioned this. i would not really want to stay awake and listen to the insignia for any period of time lol. music_man

Sounds like you're one of those "first watt is the most important watt" audiophile. I agree to this philosophy to a certain degree. For those not familiar with this way of thinking, it was the trend of the 90s with flea power tube amps and high-efficiency speakers such as Klipsch.

BTW, I enjoy listening at low volume....in the late night and in the dark.