Some questions about settings (sample rate, latency, etc.) for an external USB DAC running off of ASIO
Aug 3, 2015 at 5:37 PM Post #61 of 138
 
 when you don't have control over some dsp, THX widget, beat by dre crap app. or just that we're not aware that they even exist because they were bundled when we bought the computer.  I imagine that many people find a night and day difference with kernel, asio or wasapi simply from one of those unnoticed DSP running in the background.


I have a hard time blaming windows for some crappy THX or beats audio type of widget. I think the OS should allow for various audio plugins, as long as they're easily bypassed (and I've never had a problem bypassing them in Windows). I do get annoyed with computer manufacturers that include the widgets in all their products by default though, especially if they try to hide them or make them hard to find. That's hardly Microsoft's fault though...
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 6:28 PM Post #62 of 138
   
The problem with your claim is that there HAVEN'T been "sufficient tests" with "sufficient variations" to prove the point either way. As such, everybody seems to just pick the option that they "intuitively believe", consider it to be the null hypothesis, then assume (and claim) that it's true because it hasn't been sufficiently thoroughly disproven. The simple fact is that, in the world of marketing (sales), enough people believe that "more is better" that simply claiming you have more is sufficient - which means that a company can sell more players based simply on the fact that they support high-res files while their competitors don't. They have little incentive to provide proof because, to put it bluntly, it won't affect sales. (If they spend the money to do the testing, and are proven right, it probably won't increase sales by much; and, of course, if they're proven wrong, it stands to hurt sales. I don't see much incentive there to spend money on testing.) And, if some mythical company sells a player that only supports Red Book files, it will probably cost them less to jump on the band wagon and add support for 96k in their product than it will to try and convince their customers not to bother.)
 
Honestly, I'm not aware of any of what I would call properly run tests, so it's more a matter of "no reliable evidence either way" than "a preponderance of good evidence". What I've seen documented are a few tests, with far too few test subjects, dubious or badly controlled test conditions, test equipment that hasn't been proven to be able to allow any possible differences to be heard if they do indeed exist, and equally uncertain test material. The fact that you can list a whole laundry list of folks who have failed to substantiate the claim may not go far towards proving it, but it also doesn't go anywhere towards DISPROVING it either. And, in the absence of sufficient proof either way, even anecdotal claims are somewhat better than nothing.

 
In the absence of proper evidence actually supporting a claim of difference it is most logical to not believe that claim rather than to believe it. Thus the burden of proof is on those claiming (hypothesizing) a positive difference between two conditions to provide compelling evidence for it. If such bodies choose not to, for whatever reason, we do not have to take their claims at all seriously, if they cannot provide strong evidence for their claims. Anecdotes do not count as evidence.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 6:46 PM Post #63 of 138
Bottom line is Windows is a lousy way to play back music. For me XP was better than Windows 8.
After a lot of tweaking to get past all the issues with random Windows processes maxing out the
cpu every few minutes, I still had issues here and there with the CPU 100% busy causing
drop outs. My son got me a Raspberry Pi 2 for fathers day, and Runeaudio is now my weapon of choice.
My tunes are on a 256Gb thumb drive and I'm using a Pico dac. No issues with playback.
If there is a slowdown, the web interface slows down, but no issues with playback stutter
or drop outs. I'm very happy with the result. I may spring for the Hiberry DAC at some point.
Windows 8/8.1 was hard to tweak. I was able to get XP to do it's job just fine, even running a much slower
CPU with only 2g of ram. I have an upgrade to 10 Q'ed up. We'll see if it's better,
but for everyday use, I'd go Raspberry every time.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 7:01 PM Post #64 of 138
  Bottom line is Windows is a lousy way to play back music. For me XP was better than Windows 8.
After a lot of tweaking to get past all the issues with random Windows processes maxing out the
cpu every few minutes, I still had issues here and there with the CPU 100% busy causing
drop outs. My son got me a Raspberry Pi 2 for fathers day, and Runeaudio is now my weapon of choice.
My tunes are on a 256Gb thumb drive and I'm using a Pico dac. No issues with playback.
If there is a slowdown, the web interface slows down, but no issues with playback stutter
or drop outs. I'm very happy with the result. I may spring for the Hiberry DAC at some point.
Windows 8/8.1 was hard to tweak. I was able to get XP to do it's job just fine, even running a much slower
CPU with only 2g of ram. I have an upgrade to 10 Q'ed up. We'll see if it's better,
but for everyday use, I'd go Raspberry every time.

 
Fidelizer and JPLAY could solve some of the problems with your Windows system.
 
Also, fellow STAX owner! Yay!
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 7:08 PM Post #65 of 138
Originally Posted by ktm /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  Bottom line is Windows is a lousy way to play back music.

 
 
What is the domain of that complaint?
 
(1) Windows Media Player
(2) Certain undisclosed other accessories
(3) Certain releases of windows but not others
(4) Certain hardware configurations
(5) any music playback software running on any Windows system
 

 
For me XP was better than Windows 8.
 

 
Seems like that might be an excluded middle argument since there are other releases of Windows that are widely used. 
 
After a lot of tweaking to get past all the issues with random Windows processes maxing out the
cpu every few minutes, I still had issues here and there with the CPU 100% busy causing
drop outs.
 

 
I have a Windows 8.1/64 system that runs sound brilliantly with a wide range of audio and A/V applications.  I'm typng this post on it!
 
I also have an XP system and two Win 7.l1/64 systems.  They all run audio apps with perfect sound.
 
Could be garbage hardware or an overloaded system. Could be something else.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 7:32 PM Post #66 of 138
   
I think we agree on everything you said. (However, there are still ongoing discussions about "why ASIO does/does not sound better than WASAPI".) I suspect it simply boils down to what some people are more familiar with.

 
 
The most probable reason ASIO does not sound better than WSASPI is that there is no technical difference sufficient to cause them to even sound different.
 
For something to sound better or worse, it must first sound different.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 7:34 PM Post #67 of 138
   
The problem with your claim is that there HAVEN'T been "sufficient tests" with "sufficient variations" to prove the point either way

 
There have been many such tests that give reliable evidence supporting the "no differences" hypothesis. How many tens of thousands of such tests will you demand?
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 7:35 PM Post #68 of 138
  Bottom line is Windows is a lousy way to play back music. For me XP was better than Windows 8.
After a lot of tweaking to get past all the issues with random Windows processes maxing out the
cpu every few minutes, I still had issues here and there with the CPU 100% busy causing
drop outs. My son got me a Raspberry Pi 2 for fathers day, and Runeaudio is now my weapon of choice.
My tunes are on a 256Gb thumb drive and I'm using a Pico dac. No issues with playback.
If there is a slowdown, the web interface slows down, but no issues with playback stutter
or drop outs. I'm very happy with the result. I may spring for the Hiberry DAC at some point.
Windows 8/8.1 was hard to tweak. I was able to get XP to do it's job just fine, even running a much slower
CPU with only 2g of ram. I have an upgrade to 10 Q'ed up. We'll see if it's better,
but for everyday use, I'd go Raspberry every time.

No reasonable Windows system should have 100% cpu usage all the time, unless you're actively doing something stressful to the system (gaming, video rendering, etc). If yours is, and then is stuttering because of it, that's a problem with your system, not with Windows in general.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 7:54 PM Post #69 of 138
 
Originally Posted by goodyfresh /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Originally Posted by castleofargh 
 
 RMAA is cool, for gratis it's an amazing software, but you might want to have a look at nwavguy warnings about it, maybe you already did? (I don't think I'm allowed to link to his blog so buy google on ebay)

 
 

I'm fully aware of RMAA's issues, but unless you're aware of some BETTER audio benchmarking software which is also available as freeware, I'm gonna stick with it :

 
I've tried a high proportion of the audio test software that is out there, and MWAVGuy's evaluation of RMAA isn't much different from my own, except perhaps that I also have a lot of experience with trying to do audio testing on my own nickle, while having other priorities such as 4 children and a wife to support.  
 
NWAVguy was lucky enough to have some $killobuck$ test equipment (the Prism tester) at his disposal. Very few are that lucky that way.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 7:59 PM Post #70 of 138
  No reasonable Windows system should have 100% cpu usage all the time, unless you're actively doing something stressful to the system (gaming, video rendering, etc). If yours is, and then is stuttering because of it, that's a problem with your system, not with Windows in general.

 
I'll go beyond that and point out that having a system with 100% CPU utiliization (concurrently on up to 8 processors) and doing audio and video display chores concurrently drops in your lap if you need to do some high performance video editing or production.  Been there done that with minimal fuss or bother.
 
When people tell me that they can't make Windows Media Player work without stuttering or whatever, I am simply mystified.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 8:31 PM Post #71 of 138
Dedicated system running Foobar. I did nothing else with it but play music.
Only other apps were EAC and Mcafee. That's it.
It would be loafing along at 3-4% cpu and suddenly spike. It improved quite a bit when I
turned off the green stuff and not  let the processors throttle down . But still there was some pattern
where every couple of minutes Windows security stuff would spike up for a moment and then settle down.
Unplugging the network drop seemed to make it settle down. This is the only PC on my home network causing
me issues. Reloading it didn't fix it. I did download software to set priority on music playback which almost eliminated the
issue. It could be a hardware issue, but I don't care anymore. The Raspberry takes little room, runs dead quiet and
works with no fuss.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 8:53 PM Post #72 of 138
   
I've tried a high proportion of the audio test software that is out there, and MWAVGuy's evaluation of RMAA isn't much different from my own, except perhaps that I also have a lot of experience with trying to do audio testing on my own nickle, while having other priorities such as 4 children and a wife to support.  
 
NWAVguy was lucky enough to have some $killobuck$ test equipment (the Prism tester) at his disposal. Very few are that lucky that way.


Do you know of any other FREEWARE audio testing software that does most of what RMAA does (I'm mostly looking for frequency response, THD, Crosstalk, Dynamic Range tests, anything else is just a bonus) but without so many bugs and accuracy-issues?
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 9:02 PM Post #73 of 138
 
Do you know of any other FREEWARE audio testing software that does most of what RMAA does (I'm mostly looking for frequency response, THD, Crosstalk, Dynamic Range tests, anything else is just a bonus) but without so many bugs and accuracy-issues?

 
IME the unregistered (therefore freeware) version of Arta comes about as close as any.
 
http://www.artalabs.hr/index.htm
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 9:04 PM Post #74 of 138
  Dedicated system running Foobar. I did nothing else with it but play music.
Only other apps were EAC and Mcafee. That's it.
It would be loafing along at 3-4% cpu and suddenly spike. It improved quite a bit when I
turned off the green stuff and not  let the processors throttle down . But still there was some pattern
where every couple of minutes Windows security stuff would spike up for a moment and then settle down.
Unplugging the network drop seemed to make it settle down. This is the only PC on my home network causing
me issues. Reloading it didn't fix it. I did download software to set priority on music playback which almost eliminated the
issue. It could be a hardware issue, but I don't care anymore. The Raspberry takes little room, runs dead quiet and
works with no fuss.

 
So it was McAfee that was spiking the CPU?
 
Dump McAfee and try MS Security Essentials: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security-essentials-download
 
The price is right and IME the software is low calorie but effective.
 
Aug 3, 2015 at 9:08 PM Post #75 of 138
   
IME the unregistered (therefore freeware) version of Arta comes about as close as any.
 
http://www.artalabs.hr/index.htm


Thanks man!

And wow guys it just struck me, it seems like this thread I started has REALLY taken off into a very long discussion about various aspects of computer audio and audio measurements, haha :p  I didn't expect it to gather this much attention, lol.
 

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