[Merkurio]

Hi there.

After sold my AKG K701 to a friend, and still having an IE 800s and a KRK KNS-8400, I've been looking for my next (and hopefully last) big thing.

I really appreciate the sound quality, but I'm not a collector nor a die-hard audiophile (neither for space or money), so honestly I don't want to have a bunch of audio gear. In fact, I barely use my IE 800 (and never outside home, I use a KSC75 instead), and did't use the K701 before I sold it (due its open design and the sound lacking), so the KNS-8400 has been my main headphone for a while.

The thing is, I also want to sell the IE 800s and the KNS-8400s and get a seriously good closed can for all round purpose, but I'm not sure if spend too much money will be a good idea in this expensive industry or I should be fine in the <$1000 hotspot.

I want something that really improves the sound quality of my previous gear, with a transparent and equilibrated sound, more bass presence than my K701 (something similar to my IE 800s), good soundstage and spaciality, comfort and no much need of amplification, if is possible (not required, but preferably, as I don't have a amplifier yet).

I listen to all generes, but classic/orchestal/symphonic are my favourites among others, as well as jazz, rock and trip-hop. I also planning to use them for gaming.

Heard a good things about the new Mr. Speakers AEON, but don't know if there will be another good alternative with no budget restriction (thinking in the future, if I sell my IE 800s) or it will be more than enough for my requirements.

Also been seeing the Beyer T5p 2nd Gen, AKG K872 and even the Beyer DT1770.

What would you do in my place?

Really appreciate your help.

 

[cossix]

I have heard good things coming from Fostex in terms of closed back cans. Keep in mind, as people forget so often, low impedance doesn't necessarily mean that you don't need an amp. Many planar headphones are 32 ohms but don't sound great unless they're amped. If you're looking to drop around a thousand dollars for a headphone, I'd strongly recommend you get something like the Chord Mojo to go along with it. I'd rather have my HD650 and Jotunheim than a pair of HD800S or LCD X without a dac/amp.

 

[serman005]

In your general price range and with your list of wants, I would personally strongly consider an AEON. It could work for you. That said, it sounds like you are not that into the headphone listening experience overall. If that is true, I don't know why you would want to spend a thousand dollars on something for an activity you don't really enjoy. Maybe you should just spend a hundred and fifty bucks and save the rest of your money. Not really sure about all this.

 

[Monsterzero]

I would personally strongly consider an AEON.

+1

 

[Merkurio]

I have heard good things coming from Fostex in terms of closed back cans. Keep in mind, as people forget so often, low impedance doesn't necessarily mean that you don't need an amp. Many planar headphones are 32 ohms but don't sound great unless they're amped. If you're looking to drop around a thousand dollars for a headphone, I'd strongly recommend you get something like the Chord Mojo to go along with it. I'd rather have my HD650 and Jotunheim than a pair of HD800S or LCD X without a dac/amp.

I saw the Fostex TH-X00 in Massdrop, but honestly I don't think the sound profile fits with my general tastes and preferences (except for the bass department, which seems to be really good).

As for the Chord Mojo suggestion and your last statement, I'm plenty interested. Never listen all the potential of my K701s and it will be a great idea to invest in a good amplifier if I want to keep just a pair of cans now.

In your general price range and with your list of wants, I would personally strongly consider an AEON. It could work for you. That said, it sounds like you are not that into the headphone listening experience overall. If that is true, I don't know why you would want to spend a thousand dollars on something for an activity you don't really enjoy. Maybe you should just spend a hundred and fifty bucks and save the rest of your money. Not really sure about all this.

I really enjoy headphone listening experience, what I don't is the fact of have three different audio solutions and only use one of them, when I could have only one superior alternative. At the beginning it was fine for curiosity and comparison purposes, but with the time you realize that it is a waste of money (at least for me).

Regarding to the AEON, I'm seriously interested on them, and I wouldn't need to sell my IE800s to buy them (maybe for a Chord Mojo in the future). I even like them aesthetically more than the Ether C.

 

[buke9]

Well I'm torn on this one . I think the Aeons are very good as I own the Ether-C's and also love them. I also have the AKG K872's that I also adore. This is almost too hard to call.

 

[Merkurio]

Well I'm torn on this one . I think the Aeons are very good as I own the Ether-C's and also love them. I also have the AKG K872's that I also adore. This is almost too hard to call.

Which one do you use the most?

Pros and cons of both?

 

[buke9]

Which one do you use the most?

Pros and cons of both?

Well that's hard to say as I have also brought a pair of HD-800's into this also. I also listen a bit different also as I like to sit outside a bit more than not. So I don't get as much Yggy time as is needed. As far as headphones it is determined by the mood I'm in for the most part. I probably listen to the K872's the most right now as the can rock straight out of my phone. That is changing a bit as I just got a Chord Mojo.

 

[Merkurio]

Well that's hard to say as I have also brought a pair of HD-800's into this also. I also listen a bit different also as I like to sit outside a bit more than not. So I don't get as much Yggy time as is needed. As far as headphones it is determined by the mood I'm in for the most part. I probably listen to the K872's the most right now as the can rock straight out of my phone. That is changing a bit as I just got a Chord Mojo.

Thanks.

How does the Mr. Speakers sound straight out of the phone?

 

[buke9]

Can't say about the Aeons as I don't have them.

 

[Merkurio]

Can't say about the Aeons as I don't have them.

Yeah, but what about the Ether C?

AFAIK, both the AEON and the Ether C used almost the same configuration.

 

[obobskivich]

I have heard good things coming from Fostex in terms of closed back cans. Keep in mind, as people forget so often, low impedance doesn't necessarily mean that you don't need an amp. Many planar headphones are 32 ohms but don't sound great unless they're amped. If you're looking to drop around a thousand dollars for a headphone, I'd strongly recommend you get something like the Chord Mojo to go along with it. I'd rather have my HD650 and Jotunheim than a pair of HD800S or LCD X without a dac/amp.

You can't/shouldn't really use "planar headphones" as an example here - there's a reason those headphones need amplification above and beyond what other "low impedance" models need. Specifically, their sensitivity is quite a bit lower - in some cases under 90 dB/mW (most headphones these days are well over 100 dB/mW). The Fostex headphones are very sensitive, and very low impedance (at 25 ohms), and will drive quite easily from many devices. The bigger issue with high sensitivity/low impedance cans like the Fostex is finding an amplifier/source that's sufficiently quiet enough and has good enough channel tracking so as not to be obnoxious - this is a different set of operating requirements than low sensitivity/low impedance or other types of headphones. There are amplifiers that can do "everything" of course, but it is something to keep in mind as there are also many amplifiers designed with the sole function of putting out gobs of power for low sensitivity cans, or gobs of voltage for high impedance cans, and they may not be the best candidates for high sensitivity/low z cans. If that makes sense.

I saw the Fostex TH-X00 in Massdrop, but honestly I don't think the sound profile fits with my general tastes and preferences (except for the bass department, which seems to be really good).

As for the Chord Mojo suggestion and your last statement, I'm plenty interested. Never listen all the potential of my K701s and it will be a great idea to invest in a good amplifier if I want to keep just a pair of cans now.

I haven't heard the "X00" myself, but I've demo'd/owned some of the Denon models in the same family, and presently own the TH-900. I bring it up because they share a similar house sound, but are not the exact same cans. Overall I'd say they wouldn't be a bad candidate for replacing the K701, but there's two things you should really know when moving on from K701:

- Nothing will ever replicate that artificially massive soundstage. There are some headphones that can do a better job at 3D imaging, some that can do a better job at up-close-and-personal, and so forth, but nothing will ever provide imaging that's exactly like the K701. So if you really like their presentation, that's what you should stick with.

- Nothing will ever replicate their tonality entirely the same. They do a really good job of providing a spacious presentation that is also relatively neutral and dry without being cold. Lots of headphones can do spacious and engaging but will tend towards more warmth or go to a much colder presentation.

My point is, the K701 are somewhat of a unique listen, and a good one at that. Certainly there are "better" out there for someone's given taste (especially if you want more bass), but just understand that there are things the K701 does uniquely well, even years after its initial release.

As far as what I'd suggest, the Fostex/Denon headphones are very spacious, offer some isolation, are fairly detailed, have more generous low-end, and will do an overall very good job. Basically they can do "everything" quite well, and there's little to complain about unless you want something with less bass, or that has a significantly different tonal balance (e.g. you want a much colder, brighter, etc presentation).

Other headphones I'd suggest:

- Audio-Technica ATH-W5000. They won't have *tons* more bass than the K701, but they do have somewhat more (especially if you get a good fit/seal), they are more detailed, have more natural imaging (not the artificially expanded 701 soundstage), are equally quick, and do a great job with plenty of genres (including many that you've mentioned, imho).
- Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X. These are a bit bassier, a bit more "closed" sounding (vs W5000), but do a better job (imho) with orchestral/choiral/chamber music due to their wetter sound. Overall I prefer these better for those kinds of genres, where I prefer the W5000 for things like trance, pop, swing; both do great with jazz.
- Koss ESP/950. I know, they aren't closed-back, but they're still worth considering imho. If you like the 701's speed, detail retrieval, airiness, etc the ESP/950 will improve that across the board, while again providing a more natural 3D image. They also come with their own amplifier, which is nice.

Amplification requirements for the ATs and Fostex/Denon are relatively similar - you want something that handles low-Z and high sensitivity well, meaning you should care more about low noise and good channel tracking than absolute power output (a few mW is enough to make your ears bleed with these cans). Some good examples include the MF V-CAN and CI VHP-2. There's also many PC soundcards that can do a good job with these kinds of headphones, if you're going exclusively from a PC. Many DACs and CD players with built-in headphone amplifiers also do a good job IME, but sometimes the channel tracking at the very lowest output levels isn't great.

EDIT

Something I just thought of - if I remember right there's also an E-MU-branded variant of the Fostex/Denon full-size cans now. Might be another avenue to get into them if you can find those easier/cheaper than the Massdrop offering. I don't think Denon has released anything in their "new" (read: return to Fostex) line apart from the 7200, at least yet, but might be worth keeping an eye on.

 

[Merkurio]

You can't/shouldn't really use "planar headphones" as an example here - there's a reason those headphones need amplification above and beyond what other "low impedance" models need. Specifically, their sensitivity is quite a bit lower - in some cases under 90 dB/mW (most headphones these days are well over 100 dB/mW). The Fostex headphones are very sensitive, and very low impedance (at 25 ohms), and will drive quite easily from many devices. The bigger issue with high sensitivity/low impedance cans like the Fostex is finding an amplifier/source that's sufficiently quiet enough and has good enough channel tracking so as not to be obnoxious - this is a different set of operating requirements than low sensitivity/low impedance or other types of headphones. There are amplifiers that can do "everything" of course, but it is something to keep in mind as there are also many amplifiers designed with the sole function of putting out gobs of power for low sensitivity cans, or gobs of voltage for high impedance cans, and they may not be the best candidates for high sensitivity/low z cans. If that makes sense.





I haven't heard the "X00" myself, but I've demo'd/owned some of the Denon models in the same family, and presently own the TH-900. I bring it up because they share a similar house sound, but are not the exact same cans. Overall I'd say they wouldn't be a bad candidate for replacing the K701, but there's two things you should really know when moving on from K701:

- Nothing will ever replicate that artificially massive soundstage. There are some headphones that can do a better job at 3D imaging, some that can do a better job at up-close-and-personal, and so forth, but nothing will ever provide imaging that's exactly like the K701. So if you really like their presentation, that's what you should stick with.

- Nothing will ever replicate their tonality entirely the same. They do a really good job of providing a spacious presentation that is also relatively neutral and dry without being cold. Lots of headphones can do spacious and engaging but will tend towards more warmth or go to a much colder presentation.

My point is, the K701 are somewhat of a unique listen, and a good one at that. Certainly there are "better" out there for someone's given taste (especially if you want more bass), but just understand that there are things the K701 does uniquely well, even years after its initial release.

As far as what I'd suggest, the Fostex/Denon headphones are very spacious, offer some isolation, are fairly detailed, have more generous low-end, and will do an overall very good job. Basically they can do "everything" quite well, and there's little to complain about unless you want something with less bass, or that has a significantly different tonal balance (e.g. you want a much colder, brighter, etc presentation).

Other headphones I'd suggest:

- Audio-Technica ATH-W5000. They won't have *tons* more bass than the K701, but they do have somewhat more (especially if you get a good fit/seal), they are more detailed, have more natural imaging (not the artificially expanded 701 soundstage), are equally quick, and do a great job with plenty of genres (including many that you've mentioned, imho).
- Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X. These are a bit bassier, a bit more "closed" sounding (vs W5000), but do a better job (imho) with orchestral/choiral/chamber music due to their wetter sound. Overall I prefer these better for those kinds of genres, where I prefer the W5000 for things like trance, pop, swing; both do great with jazz.
- Koss ESP/950. I know, they aren't closed-back, but they're still worth considering imho. If you like the 701's speed, detail retrieval, airiness, etc the ESP/950 will improve that across the board, while again providing a more natural 3D image. They also come with their own amplifier, which is nice.

Amplification requirements for the ATs and Fostex/Denon are relatively similar - you want something that handles low-Z and high sensitivity well, meaning you should care more about low noise and good channel tracking than absolute power output (a few mW is enough to make your ears bleed with these cans). Some good examples include the MF V-CAN and CI VHP-2. There's also many PC soundcards that can do a good job with these kinds of headphones, if you're going exclusively from a PC. Many DACs and CD players with built-in headphone amplifiers also do a good job IME, but sometimes the channel tracking at the very lowest output levels isn't great.

EDIT

Something I just thought of - if I remember right there's also an E-MU-branded variant of the Fostex/Denon full-size cans now. Might be another avenue to get into them if you can find those easier/cheaper than the Massdrop offering. I don't think Denon has released anything in their "new" (read: return to Fostex) line apart from the 7200, at least yet, but might be worth keeping an eye on.

Thanks for such a comprehensive and elaborated post.

I'll take note of your recommendations.

Just by the way, have you listened to the new Mr. Speakers AEON and compare them to the others you named above?

 

[buke9]

Yeah, but what about the Ether C?

AFAIK, both the AEON and the Ether C used almost the same configuration.

You can run them from a phone if you don't listen very loud . It gets loud enough for me but the C's sound so much better with good gear. The Aeons has a bit more mid bass but not as much sub bass as the C's but is a bit warmer as is the C Flows one of the reasons I haven't upgraded my C's to C Flows but still am thinking of upgrading to the Open Flows . I only listened to the Aeons on desktop gear but my guess is a phone would run them fine but they sound good with better gear though.

 

[obobskivich]

Thanks for such a comprehensive and elaborated post.

I'll take note of your recommendations.

Just by the way, have you listened to the new Mr. Speakers AEON and compare them to the others you named above?

No, I have no listened to the Mr. Speakers AEON. I barely know anything about them (I saw them on InnerFidelity's home page a few days ago and that's about it). The only "generic" advice I could offer up would be that planar magnetic headphones tend towards lower sensitivity (meaning they want more power) than dynamic cans, so just keep an eye on those #s if you're going to look at planars as well, as some lower power devices may not fare as well with them.