[Kassem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch That Marantz 1060 you're driving them with is an integrated amp, right? I don't know much about it, but in general I'd say that you need a dedicated headphone amp to get the most out of the HD600. Being "boring" and "uninvolving" is a pretty good sign that your synergy isn't right, or that they're underdriven. Even if that integraded can give them enough current, you really do need the right amp and source to make the HD600's sing. In your case, it might be cheaper to replace the headphones, but "colorful, lush, beautiful sound" described the HD650 more or less exactly, and there you're going to run into the same exact problems that you're having with the HD600. If the 600 feels boring on your gear, the 650 will feel doubly so, since it's darker and more polite than the 600. Try the RS Hornet for the HD600. It will wake them right up, though it will need to be burned-in for a long time before it's final sound signature comes out.

Nah I dont think this is it. I DO get involved.. i guess how I should have described it was... when i just lean my head back and listen I find myself wandering off in my mind and not paying attention to the music. The Marantz 1060 is a good amplifier.. and it actually does have synergy with the HD600's according to many people (MKmelt in particular who said that it compares well with many 300$ range newer amplifiers) but I would LOVE to A/B the Marantz 1060 with a Gilmore Lite.

I'm starting to think that maybe I feel this way because my first set of cans were SR-60's. They were incredibly bright and upfront... but they were too fatiguing.


Quote:

Originally Posted by jbloudg20 If you like the senn sound, but want something a little more forward and involving, maybe you could have a listen to the HD-595.

Yes I actually was going to try these out. What is the impedance on HD595's?


I think I am going to go ahead and try the DT880's... see if that is what I'm looking for.

 

[Borus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassem What Ohm impedance do they have? Maybe Virometal will let me audition his! And the 650's solved that problem for you?

Not yet, I am still torn between HD-650 and AKG K-701 (that I never tried).
I currently use HD-595, I like them, they are involving but put one too close to the scene. Then I tried 600 and 650, both are a step up from 595 (in general terms more refined). However, listening to 600 it usually took a couple a minutes when still impressed with what they can do I would start losing any interest in the music. The 650, like 595, kept me glued to the music for as long as used them.

 

[billinkansas]

I did a dumbass double post - see below.

 

[billinkansas]

I had a Marantz 1060 for a short while and found it really boring and narrow sounding. No soundstage, no midrange bloom that the Senns should develop in spades. If you want to stay with a vintage ss integrated amp, try a Luxman or Sansui. If you want to cross over into the world of true bliss, get a Fisher or Scott tube amp. If the tube amp is in good shape, it will simply surround and swallow just about any of the headphone amps - and increase in value too.

WARNING - there is no return from the world of tubes.

Hey Kassem, If you ever get up to Lawrence KS, come on over and see what classic tubes are all about. Bring your 600's to compare with my 650's. The big Fisher X-1000 will drive them both at once for a fair and quick comparison.

 

[Senn20]

Headphone amp. Get a headphone amp. Seriously.

If the DT880 is in your future, get a headphone amp for them.

 

[Knuckledragger]

I echo the sentiments about getting an amp. Also, maybe I missed it, but what cables are you using? The stock HD-650 cables are ...constricting at best, and I can't imagine the 600 stockers are any better. I've had a Gilmore lite for over six months now, and I've been amazed and how much more life it breathed into all my cans, but my 650s especially.

I'm probably going to catch hell for this, but if you don't want an amp, and want to stay with the Sennheiser sound (and comfort), try to audition a pair of HD-590s. They are the most un-Senn-like Senns (hellooo forward presentation!), while still being exceptionally comfortable (I actually like the feell of them better than the 650s!) Whenever my 650s are boring me, and I don't feel like having my head squeezed in the C-clamp that is the 280s, I grab my 590s. I've done a bit of forum searching on here, and it appears that the 590s are a bit of a hotbutton. They seem almost as hotly debated as oh, the 650s...

I am definitely like the sound of the 590s, especially for ambient and lighter trance (not the menacing German stuff), where their open soundstage works magic. Most people seem to think the 590s are bass-heavy to the point of fault. My findings have been nearly the opposite, both the 650s and the 280s offer way more bass, both in terms of depth and SPL. In any case, the 590s are kind of past their prime and can be found very cheaply (I've seen reports of $100 shipped, I paid $130), far less than many competing cans of similar stature.

 

[billinkansas]

Not bad advice about getting an amp, certainly much easier to deal with. But - an amp of the caliber the Gilmore Lite has no chance against a Fisher amp, and isn't really any better than a Luxman amp. We compared the Gilmore Lite with a Fisher X-100C tube amp (not even my best one) with an A/B tester at a mini meet recently, and the results were conclusive. The Fisher had every bit of the detail with a much larger soundstage, much better mids, and effortless power.
Really guys, If you haven't heard a tube amp with cans, you're missing something incredible. With strong Telefunken 12AX7's in the Fisher preamp section, it's like a taking a musical bath.

 

[zancxia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch Warm and bright are more or less mutually exclusive, though you can argue the exact definitions of each term to no end.

Thanks. I was under the impression that "warm" meant that the lows were exaggerated beyond neutral, pushing/mixing into the mids, while "bright" pertained to the highs being done in a similar way.

I thought that it might be possible for a headphone to exhibit both of these characteristics.

 

[jagorev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zancxia Thanks. I was under the impression that "warm" meant that the lows were exaggerated beyond neutral, pushing/mixing into the mids, while "bright" pertained to the highs being done in a similar way. I thought that it might be possible for a headphone to exhibit both of these characteristics.

Looking at it this way, I think you're right. A headphone can have both treble and bass emphasis, or a rolloff at both ends.

Perhaps the opposite of warm is "thin" - which I associate with low bass, where even midrange instruments sound unrealistically lacking in low-end resonance. Similarly, the opposite of bright would be "veiled" - basically, a treble rolloff.

However, generally, the two terms (warm and bright) are inversely correlated. A headphone with a bass emphasis usually has a (relative) treble dropoff, and vice versa. Most frequency response graphs are sloped one way or the other. But a headphone with a v-shaped graph (such as DT990) would be both warm and bright. These are usually described as having "recessed mids".

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kassem And there just seems to be a little something in the sound that I'm always wanting more from. I really plan on trying out a pair of DT880's right when I get the chance, but im not sure if the neutrality of those phones is what I'm looking for. I want colorful, lush, beautiful sound.

The DT-880 is not particularly lush (unless maybe you use a tube amp), but IMO they definitely fit the other things you mentioned

. Why not go for neutrality, and add your colorations with the amp? Otherwise, you'll be stuck with whatever flavor you end up getting.

Honestly, if you're looking for more liveliness while keeping the "audiophile" flavor of the HD600, IMO you can't go wrong with the DT880 (unless you've very sensitive to brightness).

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by billinkansas Really guys, If you haven't heard a tube amp with cans, you're missing something incredible. With strong Telefunken 12AX7's in the Fisher preamp section, it's like a taking a musical bath.

Amen .... and this is particularly true with the senn 580/600/650.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by billinkansas Really guys, If you haven't heard a tube amp with cans, you're missing something incredible. With strong Telefunken 12AX7's in the Fisher preamp section, it's like a taking a musical bath.

Now where's my rubber ducky

 

[Kassem]

Alright FINE....



I'm looking for an amp now..


lol



And Bill... I'm afraid to come to Lawrence because.. If I listen to that fisher amp nothing I can afford will suffice me!

 

[zancxia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagorev However, generally, the two terms (warm and bright) are inversely correlated. A headphone with a bass emphasis usually has a (relative) treble dropoff, and vice versa. Most frequency response graphs are sloped one way or the other. But a headphone with a v-shaped graph (such as DT990) would be both warm and bright. These are usually described as having "recessed mids".

Thanks for the explanation. I guess that is why it is hard to find a headphone that as it "all." I can see why a lot of people prefer neutral... not only for reference purposes.