[oqvist]

Quote:

IF you are going to call out a brand for having a ton of failures you need to back it up with an article and actual data that says their tvs are failing at an above normal rate.
 
Personally i don't care for any of them, Rear and Front projection for me now, besides LCD for computer monitors.

It´s highly unlikely any manufacturer will give out such info to the press.
 
Just reporting some end user experiences where three in a very small forum reported same issue with their W4500s and no arguments from Sony about replacing them. As for Samsung that is comments from guy handling rmas in a warehouse. You can see the clouding issue in stores on a lot of edge ledtvs if you manage to get pass the demo material that never include really dark scenes it seems . 
 
You have to choose quirks but must say non uniform backlighting is one of the hardest to overcome for me. It messes up everything in a similar way to dynamic contrast with to few zones.

 

[mibutenma]

Samsung TVs also don't use the same screens for the exact same model you can buy 5 of the same TV and none of them will be the same.
It's called lottery panels. You can do a search about it on avsforum maybe even just google.
Basically you could get a very low end TV like a no name cheap TV or a high quality screen but it's known for the most part it's usually low end screens. But here is the scam the store will display the TV and it have the quality screen but they sell you basically a no name TV.
I would avoid Samsung.
 

 

[zx10guy]

Quote:

Even though I believe it's been discontinued I remember seeing a Pioneer Elite in stores while browsing about a year and a half back, not sure if they got bought out by Panasonic or what not but by far the most amazing Plasma I have seen. 

Yes.  The Pioneer Elites are discountinued and have been for a few years now.
 
As has been mentioned, the Kuro patents/intellectual property was bought by Panasonic.  As far as I know, none of the Kuro tech has made it into any of the Panasonic plasmas.  Sharp bought the Elite branding to use in their high end LCDs.
 
And yes, the 9G/9.5G Kuros are still the benchmark for TVs to be compared to even though they haven't been produced in years.
 
 

 

[oqvist]

I think they implemented some of them in the VT30.
 
I got home my VT30 but with cracked glass sadly. Couldn´t get a replacement for the same price so changed to a 51" Samsung D7005 plasma for half the price. Hopeful it will still have decent blacks.

 

[zx10guy]

Quote:

I think they implemented some of them in the VT30.
 
I got home my VT30 but with cracked glass sadly. Couldn´t get a replacement for the same price so changed to a 51" Samsung D7005 plasma for half the price. Hopeful it will still have decent blacks.

Here's some interesting reading for you.  http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20034816-1.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody
 
While the article wasn't written when the VT30 was out for comparison with the 111FD he uses as a reference, since then, there have been hands on shoot outs comparing the VT30 with the Kuros.  Specifically, the shoot out done by Value Electronics and owner Robert Zahn.  The VT30 still falls short of expectations and now known to not match the Kuro in picture quality even when ruling out black levels.
 
 

 

[oqvist]

I know it supposedly doesn´t match them. Brothers have a couple Kuros and while I can´t make a solid judgement between store conditions and his home cinema I must say I haven´t found anything that upset me with them . I am just saying there is some kuro tech in the VT30. There was none in the VT20 if reports are right
 
I guess you have seen this though which do reportedly beat the Kuros both in price and performance http://www.avforums.com/review/Panasonic-Professional-VX300-TH65VX300-65-Inch-3D-Plasma-TV-Review.html. Time will tell I suppose.
 
Oled displays is claimed to be released in 2012.  http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1321953693. As to be expected it will not come cheap
Quote:

Here's some interesting reading for you.  http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20034816-1.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody
 
While the article wasn't written when the VT30 was out for comparison with the 111FD he uses as a reference, since then, there have been hands on shoot outs comparing the VT30 with the Kuros.  Specifically, the shoot out done by Value Electronics and owner Robert Zahn.  The VT30 still falls short of expectations and now known to not match the Kuro in picture quality even when ruling out black levels.
 
 

 

 

[zx10guy]

Quote:

I know it supposedly doesn´t match them. Brothers have a couple Kuros and while I can´t make a solid judgement between store conditions and his home cinema I must say I haven´t found anything that upset me with them . I am just saying there is some kuro tech in the VT30. There was none in the VT20 if reports are right
 
I guess you have seen this though which do reportedly beat the Kuros both in price and performance http://www.avforums.com/review/Panasonic-Professional-VX300-TH65VX300-65-Inch-3D-Plasma-TV-Review.html. Time will tell I suppose.
 
Oled displays is claimed to be released in 2012.  http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1321953693. As to be expected it will not come cheap


 

You keep saying there is some Kuro tech in the VT30.  So tell me what Kuro tech made it in there when the comparison tests say the color accuracy and black levels are not even close to the 9G Kuros.
 
With respect to the VX300, there is some debate on that review with the professional calibrators here Stateside.  Many don't share the same view the VX300 beats the 9G Kuros.  Here are some discussion threads about it:
 
http://www.highdefjunkies.com/showthread.php?10150-Official-Panasonic-VX300-Series-Q-amp-A/page19
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1375412&highlight=vx300
 
I also trust the opinion of D-Nice.  If you follow his posts on the various forums, you can tell he knows what he's talking about with plasma displays and is very well respected in the A/V community.  I have also had him come by and calibrated both my Pioneer panels.  You can read his comments along with other respected calibrators in the threads above.  The feedback so far is the VX300 is ......meh.
 
With respect to OLED, we keep hearing the same thing every year.  Next year.  Next year.  The general consensus is we'll believe it when we see product on the shelves.
 
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 
With respect to OLED, we keep hearing the same thing every year.  Next year.  Next year.  The general consensus is we'll believe it when we see product on the shelves.

 
At least 5-6 years now.  I know, I've been waiting since the Sony's intro at CES.
 
 

 

[oqvist]

I don´t see why Panasonic would lie about using some patents in the VT30 do you? They have never claimed they are doing a copy of some Kuro model? I am not sure what you are arguing more then the fact that you don´t believe Panasonic use any of the patents they bought and the engineers that went over all work on future products?
 
 
 

 

[zx10guy]

Quote:

I don´t see why Panasonic would lie about using some patents in the VT30 do you? They have never claimed they are doing a copy of some Kuro model? I am not sure what you are arguing more then the fact that you don´t believe Panasonic use any of the patents they bought and the engineers that went over all work on future products?
 
 
 

Because, I don't believe any Kuro tech went into the display based on what I've read from professional calibrators.  Buying the patents doesn't mean they used any of the tech.  Panasonic may have done this to lock out other competitors from buying and using the patents.  Which seems more like the reason as it's been a few years and none of their products really show that investment.
 
As far as the lying, Panasonic has been less the forth coming concerning the issues they've had with floating and rising black levels.
 
And before, you think I'm just bashing Panasonic for the sake of it.  I own quite a few Panasonic products to include a Blu Ray player and 3 different digital cameras.
 
What I'm arguing with you about is your constant assertion that there is Kuro tech in the VT30 which I have not seen any evidence of.  And you haven't been able to provide one concrete source that says otherwise.
 

 

[oqvist]

Quote:

Because, I don't believe any Kuro tech went into the display based on what I've read from professional calibrators.  Buying the patents doesn't mean they used any of the tech.  Panasonic may have done this to lock out other competitors from buying and using the patents.  Which seems more like the reason as it's been a few years and none of their products really show that investment.
 
As far as the lying, Panasonic has been less the forth coming concerning the issues they've had with floating and rising black levels.
 
And before, you think I'm just bashing Panasonic for the sake of it.  I own quite a few Panasonic products to include a Blu Ray player and 3 different digital cameras.
 
What I'm arguing with you about is your constant assertion that there is Kuro tech in the VT30 which I have not seen any evidence of.  And you haven't been able to provide one concrete source that says otherwise.
 

You haven´t been able to proof that there isn´t any either. I am just saying Panasonic has been qouted claiming this and I don´t see it as that unlikely that they are using some of the patents and knowledge trying to improve their plasma line. You think otherwise obviously which is fine.

 

[zx10guy]

Quote:

You haven´t been able to proof that there isn´t any either. I am just saying Panasonic has been qouted claiming this and I don´t see it as that unlikely that they are using some of the patents and knowledge trying to improve their plasma line. You think otherwise obviously which is fine.

Ok.  Well, how come they're not using the MgO coatings in the plasma cells that were used in the Kuros?  This is the foundation of what makes a Kuro a Kuro.
 

 

[oqvist]

Quote:

Ok.  Well, how come they're not using the MgO coatings in the plasma cells that were used in the Kuros?  This is the foundation of what makes a Kuro a Kuro.
 

My layman guess would be cost factors and problems getting it into the assembly line. Also Panasonic has been struggling and is closing down some factories.
 

 

[zx10guy]

Quote:

My layman guess would be cost factors and problems getting it into the assembly line. Also Panasonic has been struggling and is closing down some factories.
 

That's right.  The Kuro tech costs too much money to implement and I see no evidence of any of it in any of their current lines of plasmas.  So if Panasonic isn't using the very basic tech that makes a Kuro a Kuro, then again I ask what Kuro tech did Panasonic incorporate?
 

 

[oqvist]

Quote:

That's right.  The Kuro tech costs too much money to implement and I see know evidence of any of it in any of their current lines of plasmas.  So if Panasonic isn't using the very basic tech that makes a Kuro a Kuro, then again I ask what Kuro tech did Panasonic incorporate?
 

Have to ask Panasonic for what patents they implemented I doubt they will tell you much