[WindowsX]

Well, back the a long past about 3D visualization. There were tons of 3d graphics that can make ppl misjudge between 3d car or real car on screen. And now it has even far advanced 3D visualization system but yet we all know it's not a real car. So it's possible to make theory that "People who has experiences up to 256 colors on screen may see 32-bit 3D car as a real car." and all nowadays 3D cars looks real to them

Back to cables, the first time I switched from stock mini cables to cheap DIY cable, I could hardly tell the difference (Almost insignificant like bass is little better). Then when I switched to another cable like CablePro Panorama, I could hardly tell the difference again (Like little more details and little clearer sound). But when I get used to Panorama cable and went back to my first DIY cable, it's horrible like a lot of garbage in signal and sound all dirty everywhere.....

What makes no difference? Snake oil, or your ears?

 

[bigshot]

A direct A/B comparison is going to be more accurate than comparing two sounds with a lot of time passing between the samples. Accuracy in human auditory memory is extremely short... a matter of a few seconds. The longer the time passes, the more time for your ears to forget and your brain come to conclusions that aren't based on listening.

See ya
Steve

 

[WindowsX]

have you tried how much frequency you can hear? mine is about 25khz.

 

[royalcrown]

I'm confused as to what you're asking. The first paragraph didn't make too much sense to me, sorry if I didn't get exactly what you're talking about. I don't know anyone who would mistake an N64 cruising the world screenshot for an actual photograph, even when the 64 was state-of-the-art. In fact, I don't know anyone that would mix up a GT5 prologue screenshot for a picture of a real car...

As for what you're saying, that sounds like a case of expectations influencing how one hears sound. Since you've gone back from the expensive, high-end cable to a modest one, you expect a worse sound, and your brain does all of the work. The brain is a powerful organ (captain obvious, I know), and it can mess with your senses in a million different ways. Ever have the heebie jeebies before?

EDIT: Quote:

Originally Posted by WindowsX /img/forum/go_quote.gif have you tried how much frequency you can hear? mine is about 25khz.

What would that matter? Even if your ears could detect such stupidly high frequencies:
1) What kind of music is up there besides annoying squealing noises?
2) What kind of speakers can accurately represent those extreme frequencies?
3) What kind of recording material captures those kinds of frequencies?

Also, you mentioned in your first post that when you first changed cables, you heard more bass. How is that consistent with being able to hear higher frequencies?

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindowsX /img/forum/go_quote.gif have you tried how much frequency you can hear? mine is about 25khz.

Be VERY careful with that. A lot of people can hear very high frequencies if the volume is loud enough. The problem is, once you turn the volume up that high, you may risk hearing damage from sound you can barely hear. Be safe if you want to keep your hearing.

There is very little benefit from being able to hear super high frequencies. Music doesn't exist up there, but squeals produced by televisions and florescent lights does.

See ya
Steve

 

[WindowsX]

well, the problem is ppl who can't hear sound at normal volume level up to 17khz or more can hardly notice the different in low level detail (like couldn't differentiate between $1k dac and $3k dac with similar signature)

 

[Nicolas2305]

Hearing up to such frequencies can be troublesome. When we had "old" TV in the house and the sound was muted I used to hear high frequency noise coming out of the TV itself and it was really disturbing. Now that we have LCD TVs in the house, no more problem, what a relief.

Let me tell you, you don't want to hear above 20kHz because there's nothing good to hear for the humans.

If you want to hear bats that's another ting...

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindowsX /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, the problem is ppl who can't hear sound at normal volume level up to 17khz or more can hardly notice the different in low level detail (like couldn't differentiate between $1k dac and $3k dac with similar signature)

How do you figure that?

 

[WindowsX]

From experiences found from my friends. One of them can hear up to 15khz and they said high frequency is kind of dropped off even with treble boost can hardly make noticable changes to him.

Well, I guess it's no use talking about low-level stuff to people who never get used to multi-k rig.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindowsX /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, the problem is ppl who can't hear sound at normal volume level up to 17khz or more can hardly notice the different in low level detail (like couldn't differentiate between $1k dac and $3k dac with similar signature)

Detail has nothing to do with high frequency response. The price of a high end DAC isn't the best way to judge its performance.

See ya
Steve

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindowsX /img/forum/go_quote.gif From experiences found from my friends. One of them can hear up to 15khz and they said high frequency is kind of dropped off even with treble boost can hardly make noticable changes to him. Well, I guess it's no use talking about low-level stuff to people who never get used to multi-k rig.

That didn't answer my question. I want to know how not being able to hear high frequencies affects the ability to hear low frequencies. Moreover, how does hearing more high-end extension affect hearing more low-end detail?

 

[philodox]

Most soundcards cant handle very high frequencies and end up outputing a 'false frequency' instead. You can easily notice this, as it will get harder and harder to hear and then all of a sudden it will be easy to hear again. This is what makes most of those tests inconclusive since assuming you can hear up to that cutoff point, everything after it is going to be audible to you as well. Not sure if I explained that clearly, but I can try again if not.

Either way, as someone else mentioned, who cares if you can hear super high frequencies? That has nothing to do with the audible differences between cables. Personally, most of the difference I've noticed between individual cables [other than added coloration] has been in mid and lower bass extension and detail.

 

[Terminus Est 23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindowsX /img/forum/go_quote.gif have you tried how much frequency you can hear? mine is about 25khz.

Sorry, you can't hear 25khz. What you're hearing is speakers generating noise much lower in frequency because speakers aren't all that perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot A lot of people can hear very high frequencies if the volume is loud enough.

With enough volume, people are likely just hearing harmonics that are too quiet to hear normally. . . that's IF the speaker has been verified as having a range that high (not sure how many speakers in the world could generate 25Khz with any accuracy).

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicolas2305 When we had "old" TV in the house and the sound was muted I used to hear high frequency noise coming out of the TV itself and it was really disturbing.

Back when I lived with my dad, his monitor would make that noise if he turned the PC off but left the monitor on. Quite frequently I'd go tromping into the room to turn his monitor off and he could never understand how I heard it. . . that said, that frequency was right around 18.5 khz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Most soundcards cant handle very high frequencies and end up outputing a 'false frequency' instead.

Exactly.

I'm not even sure that you can find a consumer available speaker that can accurately reproduce a pure 25Khz sine wave.

 

[Nicolas2305]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terminus Est 23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Back when I lived with my dad, his monitor would make that noise if he turned the PC off but left the monitor on. Quite frequently I'd go tromping into the room to turn his monitor off and he could never understand how I heard it. . . that said, that frequency was right around 18.5 khz.

Same here. My parents turn off the reciever but sometime forget the T.V. (black screen). Before having LCD I used to hear the sound, now it's impossible to tell if the tv is on off just by it's sound.

Anyway, the point is that at this level, it's not something you can enjoy listening so there is no poing being able to hear beyond that level.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terminus Est 23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif With enough volume, people are likely just hearing harmonics that are too quiet to hear normally. . . that's IF the speaker has been verified as having a range that high (not sure how many speakers in the world could generate 25Khz with any accuracy).

Piezoelectric tweeters supposedly go that high. Not that it would make music sound any better...

See ya
Steve