[marios_mar]

the 1.4 model is like 15000 EUROS while the RS which just got imported to my country is 19000 EUROS. I dont know if its worth the the xtra money. For 600 EUROS Skoda officially tunes the 1.4 engine to 125hp. And the again for 19000 EUROS you get the new FR Seat Ibiza with the 1.8T engine which is really powerfull.

 

[pbirkett]

To be honest Mario, despite how it looks on paper, I'd fancy the TDI 130 to show the Ibiza FR a clean pair of heals.

 

[marios_mar]

The thing is that the TDI with 130hp is already "stretched" to have this kind of power. The 1.8T for the 150hp it uses low compression (0,5 bar or something). It can be very very easily (and cheap like 1000 EUROS) go up to over 190 hp and most important safely and a torque about as much as the diesel.

I really dont know what of the two I would prefer. Probably the diesel as it is very economic and out of curiosity about how the TD drives. Soon I will start driving our new Turbo Diesel car.

 

[pbirkett]

Thats not true Mario. The TDI 130 lump as stock produces 145 to 150 bhp when put on the rollers, and there are many people here in the UK with the Fabia RS pushing 200 bhp with just a chip. The TDI 130 is a better engine than the Turbo 150 bhp engine without any doubt for me.

The TDI as stock will certainly accelerate at least as well as the FR, all the way up to 100 mph. The Petrol engine will never get close to the 330 lb ft attainable with the TDI, and will in fact struggle to get close to even the stock torque of a TDI, no matter how much its tuned

 

[marios_mar]

Ok to set this straigh. The Fabia of yours does NOT have what you call the stock TDI engine.

The stock TDI 1.9 engine by VW is 90hp with 24 Kgs of torque
The stock 1.8T petrol engine by VW is 150 with 21,4 Kgs of torque

Your motor is already tuned up to 130 hp at around 30KG torque just like the Octavia RS is tuned up to 210hp with round 24Kg torque.

The 1.8T is capable of safely going up to 275hp.

200hp sounds awfully a lot to me for the TDI.

I love driving our Octavia 1.8T and I would never trade it for a TDI octavia (110hp). It is a much more spirited engine that makes the car have a great performance. The 21,4 Kg of torque is given at 1700rpm already!!! This is real something for a petrol engine.

For me both engines are excellent. If I bought a new car I would have to do a lot of research and test driving before deciding.
I dont want to diss your opinion but it is rather strange to say that you think the TDI is a better engine. Have you driven the 1.8T?

 

[marios_mar]

"The TDI as stock will certainly accelerate at least as well as the FR, all the way up to 100 mph"


nope it will not. I have the magazine auto motor und sport right in front of me.

For 0-100 (Km) the Seat is like over 1 second. With 154 hp. Go figure what will happen when you get 200hp on this baby...

Furious..........

 

[pbirkett]

Yes, the factory figures of the 1.8 FR make it look faster.

Autocar May 2004 just tested the Fabia RS, 0-60 (0-100 kmh) in 8.2 seconds. 0-100 (0-160 kmh) in 24.4 seconds.

The 90 bhp engine is not a PD engine, it is an older unit, definitely not the same thing. The 130 engine comes in various states of tune, dictated by their turbocharger. VW sells the same engine in 150 bhp form in the Leon Cupra TDI. So the 130 is definitely not the highest state of tune,

If you dont believe me that the Fabia vRS can achieve nearly 200 bhp from a chip, go to www.briskoda.net, and look up some of the threads where members have succesfully tuned their vRS up with a £500 (less than $1000) chip up to 190 BHP and 300+ lb ft of torque. Indeed, there is already one Fabia RS that has exceeded 200 bhp on that forum (Ross Clarke's). This is with a chip, exhaust and mIltek exhaust!

Autocar who tested a Leon Sport with a 1.8 Turbo 20v petrol engine producing 180 bhp against the Ibiza TDI 130 only managed to beat the TDI by 0.5 seconds to 100 mph, thats with 50 bhp more!!!

Like it or not, the TDI PD is an extremely good engine that outperforms its claimed figures so much its not even funny

Believe me, I own this car, I know how quick it is!!

Why not visit the Seat Cupra forums and search for the FR, and see how many members admit the TDI 130 would probably outperform it...

 

[Tomcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marios_mar I love driving our Octavia 1.8T and I would never trade it for a TDI octavia (110hp). It is a much more spirited engine that makes the car have a great performance.

marios_mar,

I agree. I own an Octavia Estate 1.8T. Very nice car, good performance, very reasonable price.

On the topic of diesel vs. petrol engine performance: maximum motor torque is meaningless without motor speed. In the end, what acclelerates a car is horsepower, and horsepower is proportional to the product of torque and rpm. Race cars don't have diesel engines because it's much easier to increase horsepower (and improve acceleration) by increasing motor speed - race cars have rpm figures of 15,000 or higher.

And the fact that in-gear acceleration isn't as good with a lower torque petrol engine is easily overcome: for maximum acceleration, one has to shift into a lower gear in order to get motor speed up into a region where the petrol engine has its maximum power band. If push comes to shove, a petrol engine with more horsepower will outperform a diesel engine with higher maximum motor torque but less horsepower. Remember, there are no race cars with diesel engines. However, diesel engines have one thing going for them, of course: fuel efficiency.

 

[marios_mar]

Tomcat what is the Estate? Is it the combi version?

Have you tuned the car?

Most people in Germany have Golfs instead of Octavia.

It was a bit more expensive while not necessarily a better performer.

Greetings to Frankfurt!

 

[Tomcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marios_mar Tomcat what is the Estate? Is it the combi version? Have you tuned the car? Most people in Germany have Golfs instead of Octavia. It was a bit more expensive while not necessarily a better performer. Greetings to Frankfurt!

You are right. Since I bought the car in Germany, its official name is Skoda Octavia Combi 1.8T. I'm never quite sure how Combi translates into other languages and markets. Somtimes it's Estate, somtimes it's Station Wagon. I am confused.

No, I haven't done any tuning. Re-programming the turbo charger is easy enough and not too expensive, but the car is pretty fast as it is.

Golf? VW has a hard time selling their newest generation Golf, the Golf V, in Germany. It's too expensive. Sales figures are slipping. The Octavia is simply the better Golf, with better build quality and lower price tag, and the new Octavia II which is based on the Golf V will be no exception. Skoda is VW for smart buyers. Besides, Skodas are prettier.

 

[marios_mar]

"Golf? VW has a hard time selling their newest generation Golf, the Golf V, in Germany. It's too expensive. Sales figures are slipping. The Octavia is simply the better Golf, with better build quality and lower price tag, and the new Octavia II which is based on the Golf V will be no exception. Skoda is VW for smart buyers. Besides, Skodas are prettier."

Tomcat I really didn't know Golf V is not doing well in Germany. I bet thought that the word good is relative. I believe that you get to see more Golf V in Germany that any other country (its reasonable anyway). As you said the price is too high but Golf IV is an exception two.

IMO Skoda Octavia was the lure with its low price/high performance combination. 20.000 EUROS for the 1.8T Octavia with the Golf at more than 24.000 is a huge difference. The Octavia starts at around 12.000 for the 1.4 16V . After Skoda got away from the eastern block company status in everyone's mind (a thing that happened completely with Octavia) then came the Fabia which is no bargain since it is priced pretty much as its brothers the Polo and the Seat. The Superb is based on the same floorpan as the Passat and still is pretty much the same priced as the Passat. So you can be sure (especially since Octavia I and Octavia II are going to be selling in parallel for one or two years) that the Octavia II will cost pretty much the same as the Golf V.


Unfortunately Skoda will not be a bargain car company anymore now that they have a higher Status but they will sure have pretty, good quality cars that people will want to buy.

Can't wait to see what the BMW series 1 2.0L will cost.

 

[pbirkett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat On the topic of diesel vs. petrol engine performance: maximum motor torque is meaningless without motor speed. In the end, what acclelerates a car is horsepower, and horsepower is proportional to the product of torque and rpm. Race cars don't have diesel engines because it's much easier to increase horsepower (and improve acceleration) by increasing motor speed - race cars have rpm figures of 15,000 or higher.

Yes, but these are not F1 cars, they are road cars. Like it or not, I am right about the TDI 130 accelerating just as quickly as the 1.8 Turbo petrol, road tests in the UK have proved it time and time again. The 1.8 Turbo petrol is not a particularly revvy engine anyway, and when people put them on the rollers, they tend to develop maximum power just below 6,000 rpm, regardless of what it might say on paper.

Quote:

And the fact that in-gear acceleration isn't as good with a lower torque petrol engine is easily overcome: for maximum acceleration, one has to shift into a lower gear in order to get motor speed up into a region where the petrol engine has its maximum power band.

I have actually come from a pretty revvy petrol powered car, and I think for real world driving, diesels are far better. Put my foot down in 5th (or 6th) for that matter, and I'll leave the vast majority of cars behind, including yours probably. I still have the option of dropping down a gear, but its a moot point, because once again, road tests have PROVED the performance of the TDI 130 (and TDI 100, TDI 150) engine. I am not trying to say that my car is the fastest around, but it is quicker than the Turbo 150 bhp engine and barely any slower than the 180 bhp Turbo engine.

You try to make out torque is useless. Well sorry, you are DEAD wrong. My car gives an incredible surge forward when the torque comes on song, which believe me, makes up for the deficit it might have by lacking the long legs of a revvy petrol engine. Not only that, but torque allows me to power out of corners quicker than the majority of petrol cars. Lets not even mention the fact the TDI will give you this performance, and probably double the fuel economy of an equivalent petrol engine.

But anyway, if you were in the UK with your car, I'd happily let you suffocate on my diesel fumes, because I know what my car can do and that is that. I speak from experience, because I have driven both petrol and diesel hot hatches, where I suspect you have not driven a diesel hot hatch. As it is, since you clearly will not have it that my car has a good engine, I am done with this thread, because quite simply I dont give a toss what you think my car wont do

 

[marios_mar]

pkbirkett my friend.

I LOVE your car and your engine as well. I just love our Octavia better!