[wirbeltier]

Guys, with a dedicated DAC, will there be a substantive improvement compared to my Creek CD43? It has a coax digital out.
Plus: is a coax out inferior to an optical out?

Questions, questions

Cheers
Klaus

 

[Garbz]

I don't know. Will a NAIM CDS be a signficiant improvement over the Creek CD43? A DAC is just another source. Your CD43 has one in it. I'm sure I could give you a DAC which won't be anywhere near as good. That said spending the right ammount of money will give you a DAC that's better. It's the same theory as a high end source and there's very good discusions happening on the topic right now http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187529.

And no coaxial is far superior to the optical connection. The optical unforunately falls flat on it's face becuase of the toslink connectors on either end.

 

[wirbeltier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz I don't know. Will a NAIM CDS be a signficiant improvement over the Creek CD43? A DAC is just another source. Your CD43 has one in it. I'm sure I could give you a DAC which won't be anywhere near as good. That said spending the right ammount of money will give you a DAC that's better. It's the same theory as a high end source and there's very good discusions happening on the topic right now http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187529. And no coaxial is far superior to the optical connection. The optical unforunately falls flat on it's face becuase of the toslink connectors on either end.

...thanks a lot Garbz! This was exactly what I needed to know

Cheers
Klaus

 

[lator]

If you are using a CD-player as your main source, a better internal DAC usually is a better answer (ie. better CD-player) and also cheaper as you save a pair of interconnectors in the process.

 

[studeb]

It depends on how much you want to spend.
A DAC is just a converter with an amplifier. The question is, is the DACs amp better than your CD43s amp?

Garbz, i get your point about SPDIF transfer, but isn't going from say a TL based amp to a 627/627 amp going to improve things?

You still need one pair of interconnects, the SPDIF signal is a single run.

 

[sum]

Ditto on everything said here. I am a huge fan of external DACs, but mostly because I can easily use them for computer based playback. It becomes a piece of cake to have your CD plugged into a DAC coaxial and an Apple Airport Express or Sonos system optically. Really though, a $1000 DAC with a $100 CD player will normally sound better than a $1000 CD player, at least to my ears. Of course that depends on quality of interconnects (quickly pushing the price over the CD player price alone) and amount of jitter or bit modification on the stream coming out of the cd player.

 

[Garbz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by studeb It depends on how much you want to spend. A DAC is just a converter with an amplifier. The question is, is the DACs amp better than your CD43s amp? Garbz, i get your point about SPDIF transfer, but isn't going from say a TL based amp to a 627/627 amp going to improve things? You still need one pair of interconnects, the SPDIF signal is a single run.

I think you've missunderstood something. We're talking about just DACs here not amps. The assumption is that the DAC is external to the amplifier. I.e. Cdplayer -> DAC -> Amp vs CDplayer -> amp.

A cdplayer can have an identical stage (chipset, dac, analogue circuits) to a dac, but will sound better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sum Ditto on everything said here. I am a huge fan of external DACs, but mostly because I can easily use them for computer based playback. It becomes a piece of cake to have your CD plugged into a DAC coaxial and an Apple Airport Express or Sonos system optically. Really though, a $1000 DAC with a $100 CD player will normally sound better than a $1000 CD player, at least to my ears. Of course that depends on quality of interconnects (quickly pushing the price over the CD player price alone) and amount of jitter or bit modification on the stream coming out of the cd player.

Yes and no. In reality it can go either way, the technical aspect of it highly favours the cdplayer. Also you need to compare it with a $1200 cdplayer since there's a $100 transport and $100 of interconnects there too

 

[studeb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz I think you've missunderstood something. We're talking about just DACs here not amps. The assumption is that the DAC is external to the amplifier. I.e. Cdplayer -> DAC -> Amp vs CDplayer -> amp. A cdplayer can have an identical stage (chipset, dac, analogue circuits) to a dac, but will sound better

Sorry i should have said output stage, and i agree that a one box unit will sound better than the identical two box unit. However given the rate at which digital technology is advancing, a new DAC added to a 5-10 year old CD player (what the original question was) is probably a worthwhile upgrade. Newer DAC chips, and probably a better output stage will sound better even with added jitter.

 

[Xakepa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz And no coaxial is far superior to the optical connection. The optical unforunately falls flat on it's face becuase of the toslink connectors on either end.

That's an overstatement, Garb and you know it. Optical have issues with jitter, RCA have issues with common grund. None is "far superior" to the other.

 

[Garbz]

Yes an upgrade it is. Definitly worthwhile then. But it makes little sense to design as system from the ground up like that.

Quote:

That's an overstatement, Garb and you know it. Optical have issues with jitter, RCA have issues with common grund. None is "far superior" to the other.

Optical has horrible issues with jitter. Any jitter induced with RCAs is the result exclusively of termination issues. Even then it is much better then optical. For a cheap upgrade crack open the cdplayer and the DAC, rip out the RCAs and add 75ohm coax plugs, and volah, a virtually jitter free interface. None of the audiophile grade digital cables can hold up to $20 worth of materials here, and in this case the difference is measurable.

RCA's and the common ground issue is just stupid. If you are getting ground loops through a digital interface then the equipment is just outright illconcieved. Even going from a computer to a single ended DAC to a balanced preamp and back to a single ended headphone amp I had no ground related problems. Even if you do get a ground loop it can be fixed with a $5 digital transformer, heck you can even pull a pulse transformer off a dead network card (because we all have thoes lying behind the couch

)

I stand by my comment that coax is far superior (but not perfect), and no one I know willingly uses optical.