[Crazy*Carl]

I have been around these forums for about 7 or 8 months now and have learned alot. I have learned to use a more neutral sound and not tons of U shaped Eq. Ive learned to use high bitrate encoding or lossless when possible. I have learned of what makes a good headphone and models of good neutral sounded headphones. All these items are legitimate and I have noticed the difference personally.

What I am not convinced on is the area of headphone amps and DACs. When I first looked into getting 300 ohm sennheisers, I was worried that my computer, or ipod would not have the power to run them to acceptable volumes. When I first plugged in my new (used) Sennheiser HD580 into my ipod and computer, this myth was instantly blown away. My ipod can drive the 300 ohm sennheisers to painfully loud volumes, as can my computer.At first I was underwhelmed by the lack of bloated bass, which I was used to. However it didnt take long for me to realize how outstanding of a sound they were producing. So I though, these may be able to power the HD580 to acceptable volumes, but its probably not powering them well. So the next thing I did was buy the EF2 hybrid tube amp, with significantly more power than the ipod or computer. In addition, this came with a basic DAC. So I started using the EF2 with the HD580, and it could power them to volumes much louder than the ipod(already super loud). The EF2 turns the HD580 into room speakers, its unbelievable, and I'd rather sit at a shooting range for an hour with no plugs in than listen to it this loud. So it can make them insanely loud rather than very loud. However, what I didn't notice was any real difference in the audio quality. I have AB tested all the setups I could make with what I have extensively, and time and time again, I notice minimal sound difference at best. I even got out my old soundblaster extigy-which sounded no difference than the ipod or even the EF2. I even tried lower impedance headphones - ultrasone HFI 580, still no difference in any of the combos. Its no doubt that all the items I listed in the first paragraph are instrumental for good sound, and I thank head-fi for that. But I am convinced, as of now, good sound comes 90% from the headphones and file quality, and the other 10% the DAC and AMP is responsible. To me, the 200 dollar amp I have is more or less a 200 dollar volume control knob. will a 600 dolla amp make it sound better? I'm sure, but 600 dollars better... hmm. I am not here to say DACs and AMPs are worthless, I just want an honest answer, how much of a difference to they really make, quantitatively. From my experience, not much.

Any comments much appreciated

 

[Crazy*Carl]

^

 

[mitsu763]

In my experience here switching headphones brings a more noticeable change than upgrading amps and sources. I think high impedance phones require amps more so than low impedance phones. Your EF2 should be sufficient for your HD580. Remember the law of diminishing returns. Audiophiles will spend big bucks for minor improvements in quality but I guess that's what this hobby is all about.

 

[Spareribs]

You may have to try a more powerful amp probably like something in the $300-$400 range or more.

Yes, a computer can power up a lot of headphones to loud levels with good clarity but remember, amps are not about volume, it's about tone and let me explain:

Try to sit at a piano bar and listen to the tone of a piano. Now listen to some piano music from your computer. A weak sounding amp will reproduce that sound and it will sound like a piano but a powerful amp will make the piano sound with more wood and tone.

You will notice the more natural tone with more powerful amps. A good DAC will help too but you will probably need a more expensive DAC thats better than the EF2.

I had the same problem you had when I used the Hornet amp. While it is a good amp, it does not have the power of the bigger high current amps with the bigger power supplies. I feel that in order to hear an improvement of thicker and better tone (not volume!) you need a higher current amp with a good quality power supply. You will feel it in your soul brotha. Hence, you will experience your first eargasm. You will then feel the ecstasy.

 

[nhancakes]

It may have something to do with that we're gadget junkies and having new shiny toys to play with. I've never had a dac so I can't comment, I definitely like my headphones out of my old receiver, but that's just because I can tweak with the knobs and change the sound to my liking.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spareribs /img/forum/go_quote.gif You may have to try a more powerful amp probably like something in the $300-$400 range or more. Yes, a computer can power up a lot of headphones to loud levels with good clarity but remember, amps are not about volume, it's about tone and let me explain: Try to sit at a piano bar and listen to the tone of a piano. Now listen to some piano music from your computer. A weak sounding amp will reproduce that sound and it will sound like a piano but a powerful amp will make the piano sound with more wood and tone. You will notice the more natural tone with more powerful amps. A good DAC will help too but you will probably need a more expensive DAC thats better than the EF2. I had the same problem you had when I used the Hornet amp. While it is a good amp, it does not have the power of the bigger high current amps with the bigger power supplies. I feel that in order to hear an improvement of thicker and better tone (not volume!) you need a higher current amp with a good quality power supply. You will feel it in your soul brotha. Hence, you will experience your first eargasm. You will then feel the ecstasy.

I have used lower impedance with this amp, and still there is a minimal difference at best. Also, I have used three different types of tubes, and they all sound about the same.

I find it hard to think that people will pay 1000 dollars for an amp and a dac, as that is the price of a entire good computer.

 

[Spareribs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have used lower impedance with this amp, and still there is a minimal difference at best. Also, I have used three different types of tubes, and they all sound about the same. I find it hard to think that people will pay 1000 dollars for an amp and a dac, as that is the price of a entire good computer.

I can understand that. If you want to know what the differences are this is probably the best thing perhaps:

Become familar with some reference CDs. Go to a Head-fi meet and listen to your refernence CDs with different amps. You should be able to hear the difference easily. If you don't hear the difference, then that can be good because you will save money.

 

[parskey]

Crazy*Carl well I guess your a lucky one then because you are spending a HELL of a lot less than the rest of us all the money we spend on dac's and amp's you get to spend on phones. I personally noticed a huge difference in the way of transforming my phones when i got a dac and amp but if you like the way your set up sound then just enjoy it.

 

[stokitw]

Well, I'll say you should buy a better headphone first then think about getting a proper dac/amp for that headphone.

Just sharing my story for your reference.
After I got my Grace m902 for my GS-1000, I tried SR80 and AKG 271s on it.
Yes, SR80 and AKG271s sounds better on m902 then my previous less expensive setup, but the sound difference won't justify the $1,000 price difference....
Only with GS-1000, I can be very comfortable with the big price I paid for m902.

I would say you should focus on which headphone for next step and upgrade the system accordingly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy*Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have used lower impedance with this amp, and still there is a minimal difference at best. Also, I have used three different types of tubes, and they all sound about the same. I find it hard to think that people will pay 1000 dollars for an amp and a dac, as that is the price of a entire good computer.

 

[Mehve]

An important thing to understand is that, despite its name, an amplifier's main goal isn't volume - as you've discovered, you can often get even higher impedance headphones loud enough with just a measly iPod or onboard computer sound chip. What makes the difference between the good amplifiers and the poor ones is control over the headphones. A good amplifier will control the drivers in the headphones far more precisely, giving cleaner sound, without muddying any frequency ranges, and allow you to make out the finer details in a recording.

In my own (and many other people's) experience, next to the headphone itself, an amplifier makes the next-biggest difference in sound. So I'm honestly surprised that you're not hearing a quality difference between your iPod and the EF2.

I'd personally suggest giving yourself a little time with the EF2, then switch back, and see if you're still not hearing a difference. But if you're seriously happy with your sound, without the aid of a dedicated amplifier or DAC, than I suppose you can count yourself as lucky (and the owner of a heavier wallet). You're right, the gear gets expensive in a hurry, and while there's always a few suckers everywhere, the majority of us are spending the money because we've heard the improvements, and we're eagerly looking for even more.

 

[Mehve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stokitw /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I'll say you should buy a better headphone first then think about getting a proper dac/amp for that headphone.

He's already got HD580's. Everyone's taste is different, but it's not as though they're bad phones by any stretch. If he's looking for a different sound signature, that's one thing. But if he's stopped hearing improvements, I'd caution against spending more money so quickly.

 

[Crazy*Carl]

Ya, well I have had the EF2 for 6 months now. But thanks guys for these replys.