[Trager]

And when I say that, I mean, the sound of rain. I tried to do my usual review process so that I could compare the LiveWires to my new Atrio M5 phones, or the Shure SE310 that I've used for the past several months or Ety ER-4P that I've loved for that past year. Unfortunately, I just couldn't get past the damn white noise problem.

I do all of my headphone testing with my 5.5G iPod, because my primary use of my headphones is straight out of the iPod, and I think that's a decent standard to use. I mean, they are ridiculously popular MP3 players, so it's a good bet that most people are familiar with the iPod's sonic signature. Unfortunately, I just could not do any critical listening with the LiveWires/iPod combo.

The hiss with LiveWires is bad. Really bad. The phones are very sensitive to begin with (I was keeping the volume between 10 and 20%), and the white noise between tracks is very noticeable. During quiet passages on some of my test songs, it was distractingly apparent, and delicate passages on well recorded tracks sounded blurred and fuzzy.

I did try the LiveWires with my Go-Vibe 6, just to make certain it wasn't something wrong with the phones. It wasn't. They sounded very good with the GV6, no hiss at all. I didn't go through a full test cycle with that, though, because I really only use my amp on planes and at my desk. I don't carry it around at work or when I'm working out, which are the two places that I do the majority of my listening. I will say that my impressions were moderately favorable... if you have a player that supports it, I would say they are better than the Shure SE310, although I think I might like the Atrio better than both.

The LiveWires have VERY good soundstage, and a really good tonal balance. Nothing is too emphasized; bass, mids, and highs seem to have equal energy. Unfortunately, I just didn't think they did that great of a job with any of the above. The bass sounded good, but didn't have the impact that I've become used to with the Atrios and the extension didn't seem as good as either the Atrios or Etys. The mids definitely didn't have the sweetness of tone that the Shures offer, and there seemed to be a little bit of congestion at times, although that might be attributed to the amp. I haven't done THAT much critical listening with my GV6. The highs were good, but again, not as clear or energetic as with the Atrios or Etys.

If there's some real interest, I'll try doing a review (probably a bit abbreviated) using the iPod/GV6 combo. I just can't do it with the straight iPod, the way I've done all of my other reviews. I suppose that I could try doing a head-to-head using the GV6 and the 4 phones in question, but I don't know how fair that is to the LiveWires, since my ears have never adjusted to their signature they way they have with the ER-4P, SE-310, and M5 phones.

 

[jayehs]

Hmmmmm i was planning to see my audiologist tmr but if what you are saying is true, this would really be a deal breaker for me. Anyone else have the same problem?

 

[Funk-O-Meter]

Nobody yet has mentioned the noise floor as a problem. These same drivers are used in a few other high end IEM's and they produce similar noise. It's the sensitivity of the drivers. It's what makes them move so quick and produce such a clear sound. The same noise floor is present in the Westones and nobody reviewing either the Westones or the Livewires has had such a strong reaction to it. It did get on my nerves with the UM-2's but it never really bothers me to the point where It ruined the deal. I was very aware of it however. Especially listening with my PC as a source. I don't know how some folks manage to decrease the problem using the same drivers but Ety did. I'm assuming that they are using the same exact driver and not having one produced off the same model that is. Word on the street is it's the exact same driver.

 

[PeterDLai]

Though I'm a little bit let down by the fact that it seemed to have nothing spectacular over the other IEMs, I'm glad that you mentioned that it has a very good soundstage. I'm finding that if I go the IEM route, I need it to have soundstage (or at least the illusion of it) because I can't stand the "in-the-head" feeling of most IEMs (including the Atrio m5, IMO).

But it looks more and more like I'm going to go the full-size headphone route and just get a cheap pair of isolating canalphones for casual on-the-go listening.

 

[laxx]

The noise floor was brought up before in an older thread. I myself questioned it based on it's... I think... 7ohm impedance and extremely high sensitivity. The answer I got was, it hisses, use an amp.

 

[Trager]

7 Ohms? Are you kidding? If that's the impedance, no wonder -- I guess maybe I'll have to grab a DVM at work today and see for myself.

FOM: I haven't tried any of the Westones, so I can't speak to those, but these are far and away the most sensitive IEMs I've tried. In my limited experience with the LiveWires, I don't think they're the fastest (ER-4P probably wins on that, with the TF10P coming in second). Also, I'd be really surprised if the EarPeace drivers are the same as the Etymotic drivers -- Etymotic needs a full spectrum driver since they only use a single BA. The EarPeace might use the same drivers as IEMs like Westone UM2 or Shure SE420 -- I would find that a lot more reasonable, since those are both also two-way setups. My guess is that the EarPeace crossover is the culprit.

Incidentally, I did try using my Ety P-S cable and the hiss went away, unfortunately, I felt like that adversely affected the bass response.

 

[Funk-O-Meter]

They use the Knowles ED 29689 and CI 22955 drivers. The ED 29689 (the high freq driver) is reportedly used in the earlier Sensaphonics, Etymotics and possibly Ultimate Ears (before they had proprietary HF drivers designed) and that English company whose name eludes me at the moment. Westone also used Knowles drivers I'm told but I don't know which models. Not that I've had the opportunity to bust each of these open myself but just that's what's been reported here and in other forums. Take that with a grain of salt. Reliable sources though. I do remember reading that Etymotic may have had the driver tweaked to their specs. It's also important to note that the drivers are only part of the overall sound of an IEM. Crossover design, filtering, and the ports design also effect the sound substantially I've read.

Etymotic seems to have gone to great lengths to sculpt the Freq. Response of their IEM's to their specs. It's not flat by any means but they employed resisters and metal screen filters to change the response. By using their adaptor your adding resistors into the circuit that change the frequency response. They also would raise the impedance and help solve the hissing problem you have. You could (if you were into it) create you own impedance adaptor to raise the impedance of the Livewires and do away with the hiss problem and not change the freq response too much if at all. There's threads around here on how to build your own. It does change the sound slightly most people say but it's worth it. It's a problem with a lot of IEM's the use Armatures. Mainly the Knowles. I think because they were designed initially for battery powered hearing aids and it would be a great advantage in that case as the battery would last longer. My assumption at least.

Were you listening at low levels? I suspect if that's your listening style (which is a very healthy one) that you'd have more of a problem than those of use who listen at a higher volume consistently.

 

[Publius]

I'll confirm the phenomenal amount of noise with LiveWires on my stock 5G iPod.

BTW, an amp WILL NOT help this IIRC, because a lot of the noise is proportional to the volume level. You'll almost certainly need to move to an iMod to fix this issue. (But I don't have an iMod so I can't tell you if even that will be quiet enough.)

 

[Trager]

Actually, I'm fairly certain that it's a nontrivial task to create a resistive network that would increase the impedance of a set of headphones without impacting the frequency response. Although you can model audio drivers as straight resistive elements, they really aren't -- they are active elements, so increasing the impedance without changing the frequency response would require a multipole filter. (Yes, I do a lot of EE test and characterization stuff as part of my job... in fact, I have a pretty sweet design for an amplifier characterization tool that I keep meaning to get around to implementing, but work has been keeping me a little too busy to want to do that in my spare time) I had always been told that the P-S cable is just a straight resistance (which would make sense with the change it makes in the Ety ER-4P sound and the fact taht there are a number of people who have home recipes for cables that supposedly have identical effect). Even if I could make such an adapter, however, I don't think I'd be inclined to do so unless I decide to entirely re-cable the LiveWires. This is supposed to be my portable setup, and I don't want an extra element in there if I can help it. The sound isn't THAT good to me to justify that level of effort.

I do listen at fairly low levels (which is one reason I really want the isolation of customs), and I know that's part of the problem. I also have very sensitive hearing for the most part, hence the reason the hiss is so noticeable for me.

 

[Trager]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll confirm the phenomenal amount of noise with LiveWires on my stock 5G iPod. BTW, an amp WILL NOT help this IIRC, because a lot of the noise is proportional to the volume level. You'll almost certainly need to move to an iMod to fix this issue. (But I don't have an iMod so I can't tell you if even that will be quiet enough.)

An amp will help if you use the dock/lineout to feed the amp. It is the iPod's headphone amp that has the lousy noise floor, not the DAC within the iPod. Using my lineout to GV6, the noise is indetectible down to the point at which the GoVibe cuts out.

 

[blessingx]

I find it strange people are blaming the LiveWires and not the iPod. Does the SA5K have a "high noise floor" too?

 

[Trager]

I don't think there's an issue of blame. It's common knowledge that the iPod doesn't have a fantastic headphone out. Unfortunately, the iPod is my (and many other peoples') chosen DAP, and the LiveWires (IMO) aren't compatible with the iPod.

 

[gilency]

Westones UM2 have a mild hiss with my computer only. Also with the Ipod Nano first gen but it goes aways when I turn it on. (present only if off!). Not a big deal to me.