[EyEPoD]

Well its been another day of burn-in and unfortunately it seems like im going backwards rather than making progress.

I just cant get the sound i want. I have been going back and forth between the standard buds and the tri-flange only to end up back at the tri-flange. The sound I am getting though is too uneven.

It is very inconsistent, the low end is always full, but some cases its so overwhelming that it sounds like something is wrong with them.

It just feels like their is a huge gap in the sound. The vocals arent as clean as they should be, and they seem to take backstage in many songs. This is very different than the Etys. I think the Etys place vocals in the perfect position, almost as if the sound is coming out of your own mouth.

This is just one of the downsides to a full sounding phone like the shures, it accents certain areas, but hides others.

One problem very well may be my XP-7 amp. While every note comes through fuller and more pronounced, this also includes the bass. In many cases it becomes uncontrollable.

When listening to the shures directly out of the ipod I am actually quite happy. I tried using the treble booster, and while on the surface it sounds like a good idea, it definately does not translate well in all cases. The sound feels more balanced, but cases with extreme highs like symbol crashes can actually get painful.

I am going to have one last update in another day or two with my final gear. Dont get turned away by this latest post, I am just trying to stress some of the negative sides that come along with the shures.

[Edit: hehe I love going back and reading this post. Its similar to alot of the current E3 impressions. This is a case for Ear burn-in and a source upgrade].

 

[Wodgy]

Eyepod, have you tried the Etymotic ER-4P? They have a "fuller" sound than the ER-4S and yet seem to retain a pleasing amount of clarity. (I personally prefer this sound to the ER-4S, but I know I'm in the minority.)

 

[AdamZuf]

Quote:

Originally posted by EyEPoD One problem very well may be my xp-7 amp. While every note comes through fuller and more pronounced, this also includes the bass. In many cases it becomes uncontrollable.

the bass of the XP-7 is very,very,very controllable... that's surprising.
you are saying that directly from the iPod it's better? maybe the iPod judt don't provide enough bass, but it balances the shures?

 

[bangraman]

OK... recommendation coming up, usual disclaimer... personal tastes, etc...


Assuming you have another tip or Ety ER-4P to compare with:
- Do cut the stalk so that the largest flange forms a proper seal with your ear while the main body of the E5 nestles comfortably within the bowl of your ear.
- Try and cut the last flange off. Do this with a very sharp knife so that the cut is as even as possible. Do not leave sharp edges (even though this is soft silicone) behind. This is best done by commiting yourself to a cut and applying high pressure to get a clean single cut. Common sense note: Sharp knives are dangerous.


What you're trying to achieve are two things:
- Unimpeded sonic path from the drivers
- Good fit


The first point is achieved by having as short a tip as possible given the material that the tip is made from, since it deforms in the ear and the slightest deformation of the tip tube does have an effect on the sound, ESPECIALLY in the highs.


Cutting the last flange as well as the stalk works quite well for me. Try it and let me know what results you get, would you?

 

[lindrone]

Well, here's another thing to consider... If you've been using the Ety ER-4 for a long time now, you're going to be used to the way it sounds to a certain degree. ER-4's makes everything that goes through sound inredibly clear and delicate. As I mentioned in my review of the E5c, because of how "full" it sounds, it can appear to be overwhelming to some people. There's a very consistent tonal presentation across the entire range, so it doesn't pick up a certain frequency and "enhance" them.

Now, I know what the response chart of the ER-4 looks like (it's supposedly one of the most neutral headphone there is), but to my ears, it is simply sterile and lacking in certain ranges, especially the low-end, which if often just fails to produce at all. To quote another conversation I had with another head-fier, he basically said that he's always found Ety's sterile, and even though it makes thing sound good, it wasn't the most natural way he can think of. He's always found that Ety's tend to, for example, enhances the first pull of the string on a guitar, make it sound incredibly attractive, but the way the note falls off is missing and unnatural.

With the E5c, you get an equal amount of all the sound, the bass is going to sound incredible in comparasion to the ER-4. However, that same "bass" is just a reproduction of the bass you can get in many bigger headphones, CD3000, HD600.. so on.. so forth. If you had a CD3000 or HD600 to compare with, they reach even deeper and fuller than the E5c. So E5c's seemingly boomy bass is really not boomy at all, it's actually quite acceptible and accurate in comparison with other headphones. Only in a direct comparison with the ER-4 they will seem to be "boomy".

It is also very revealing of bad recordings, because it doesn't hide anything that the recording has to playback... In this case, ER-4 can really be considered more "musical". Although E5c is far from being "analytical", it doesn't make everything sound great. If you've got a boomy recording, noisy recording, the E5c will expose it and play it back the way it was recorded. There are distinctive songs and tracks I used to like before I got the E5c, now I can't withstand anymore, because I never realized either how badly they were recorded, or how much the recording was tuned towards your average listeners that can't wait to have enough bass. Most hip-hop and rap albums (which I really haven't listened to much since high school) is out of the door.

I don't know how the XP-7 performs with the E5c, but I really love the way my E5c sounded like on a HR-2, if that's an indication of anything. Either way, I don't think the E5c itself is "uncontrollable", it's more likely now you're hearing the same recording in ways that you never expected... and the boost in the low-frequencies will take some adjustment period to get used to. The E5c has always sound fabulous with my Gilmore V2. To a certain extent, I actually like the sound signature over the CD3000. Of course, CD3000 is technically, a better headphone (more resolute, more range extension.. etc), but the sound signature of the E5c is what I've got to really love. Now only if I can find a headphone with the same response.. grr...

 

[bangraman]

...headphone with same response...


Try the RS-1 with flat pads.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamZuf the bass of the XP-7 is very,very,very controllable... that's surprising. you are saying that directly from the iPod it's better? maybe the iPod judt don't provide enough bass, but it balances the shures?

Well, the iPod doesn't drive E5c to its full extent, so the sound is a little more calm and more defined coming from the iPod. It won't have the midrange resolution to reveal flaws in the recording (because it's not capable of playing back that much detail), and it won't power the E5c so it has the entire dynamic range. I use this set-up as well... and it's easier to listen to for someone who has been used to the ER-4 sound.

I just stopped using a portable amp because I find it a little cumbersome and annoying having to lug another piece of equipment around.

Also, if you use MP3 files with E5c & iPod... a whole range of bass will just be missing. The really low, deep, rumbling bass will not be there at all.. it's a flaw with the MP3 format, E5c reveals that as well.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wodgy Eyepod, have you tried the Etymotic ER-4P? They have a "fuller" sound than the ER-4S and yet seem to retain a pleasing amount of clarity. (I personally prefer this sound to the ER-4S, but I know I'm in the minority.)

Doesn't matter which version of ER-4 you go with, since the sound signature is different.. the "fullness" doesn't come close to the E5c.

I'm in the other camp though, I think a properly driven ER-4s is better than a ER-4p, of course, you'll need a good amp for that. The XP-7 is an excellent amp though

 

[Tyson]

What you are hearing w/the E-5's sounds very much like a "house curve" response. There's a lot of info on this at hometheaterforum.com - it's not dead flat like the Ety's, but subjectively a lot (the majority) of people prefer the sound of the house curve to perfectly flat response.

 

[AdamZuf]

Quote:

Originally posted by lindrone if you use MP3 files with E5c & iPod... a whole range of bass will just be missing. The really low, deep, rumbling bass will not be there at all.. it's a flaw with the MP3 format, E5c reveals that as well.

i never found a problem with bass depth and MP3. it might be the MP3 decoder in the iPod, not the format.

 

[lindrone]

Trust me on this one Adam, when you get your E5c's.. you'll start hearing difference between MP3 and uncompressed files

(and it's not just the women!.. inside joke from a different thread)

MP3 compression chops off some amount of highs and lows, regardless of which bitrate and encoding format you use. I was using LAME on highest VBR settings and highest analyzation settings.. and it was still occuring.

 

[AdamZuf]

i'm assuming that you tried comparing originals and mp3 on a few different decoders to reach that conclusion?

well..if you can hear it only through your E5 it might be some sort of a synergy thing - they bring out what other cans don't. maybe they "hold on" to the bass signals in another way, which makes it audioble. each headphones "dances" differently.

i did some comparisons with the DT880 before i got my sonys (the DT880 reach lower), and couldn't tell the difference on a blind test, when using LAME 320 alt preset extreme.

btw, do you find the E5 to rival or beat the CD3000, if one is searching for a single set of cans?
(because i don't find Ety's to even come close..)

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamZuf btw, do you find the E5 to rival or beat the CD3000, if one is searching for a single set of cans? (because i don't find Ety's to even come close..)

Oh my.. that's a mighty task to ask of me.. LOL...

I admire the Sony CD3000 greatly, if I was going to pick one "headphone" to live with for the rest of my life, that is probably it right now. However, it's much harder picking between a canalphone and a headphone.

Sound quality-wise, they have a very different signature. E5 is a very warm can, it will not produce a ear-piercing high as the CD3000, to me personally, that's an attractive feature. I don't like the piercing highs sometimes produced by the CD3000, or even my A900 at times. The E5 has a very, very good bass, but it doesn't reach quite as deep as the CD3000 either, there comes a point where you definitely notice CD3000 producing a deeper bass, then the E5 just gets "stuck" on the lowest bass it can produce.

Where I feel the E5 is better than the CD3000, has to do with the warm midrange and overall, a warmer presentation. They are more comfortable for me to listen to for a long duration, despite the fact they insert into my ears. It's just that the sound it produces is warm and bassy, yet clear and punchy at the same time. In comparison, CD3000 definitely sounds cold with certain recordings. If the E5 is revealing, CD3000 is even more so.

When it comes down to choices, if I had any question in my head that I will need some sort of a portable solution, I would go with the E5. It's very versatile, since you can drive it out of portables with good consistent sound, and it sings when you connect it with a nice amp.

The challenge I find with the CD3000, is getting an amp that will make it warmer without compensating any of its resolution and punchiness (btw, the MPX3 is excellent). However, there's no question that in terms of just technical superiority, the resolution and the range extension on the CD3000 is better than the E5. So if I'm going to make a purchase strictly for home, and will never go on the road with them... CD3000 would be it.

In any case, there's no way I would ever consider Ety ER-4 to replacing any of my full sized headphones. I wouldn't even trade it for my A900 or HD590 (yes, even the HD590). In comparison, the money spent on the ER-4 is better spent on the A900 or HD580/600.. imo.

ER-4 makes sense in its own right... because without an amp, it sounds better than HD580/600 ampless, and A900 would just be a preference rather than superiority. I recommend ER-4 for people who wants portability + aren't playing for an amp in the near future. ER-4P with a P=>S adaptor makes a lot of sense in that case.

 

[EyEPoD]

Well I do think the sound is improving the more I listen to the Shures. I dont want to make any further statements until I get my new gear. At which point my findings may change considerably.

Also one note, my last post wasnt meant to indicate that I now prefer the sound of the Etys. Just that I like the etys consistency. I still greatly prefer the sound of the shures for my music preferences.

I will say, though, I'm not considerably happy with the shure/xp-7 combo (but again this will be address with the new gear update).

[Edit: Shure/XP-7 combo with the right op amps provide the best amp/phone combo I've heard to date. What a change time and money can make.]

 

[ASDFer]

Quote:

Originally posted by lindrone MP3 compression chops off some amount of highs and lows, regardless of which bitrate and encoding format you use. I was using LAME on highest VBR settings and highest analyzation settings.. and it was still occuring. [/B]

Can you post some evidence of this? I agree on the highs, but all of my spectral analysis show that there is no high-pass filter in LAME, Ogg Vorbis and AAC...

Codecs

The above link is slightly out of date with respect to my ABX testing...

Also, looking briefly through the LAME code, it appears that the high-pass filter may not even be used (at least according to the comments.)