[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by widds2v etys with all of the boosting EQs on the ipod still have no bass, now you may be talking about bass boost from an amp, but that just means you have to carry around a player, amp, and etys to get the same effect as player and shures... i'll stick with the E5s.

You're right the bass EQ from iPod (or computer soundcard) is very poor. But the main reason is these devices do not have the power and refinement to deliver clean bass without distortion. With bass boost from iPod/iTunes, bass is distorted on louder peaks and is without real impact or extension.

Which is why you need SuperMacro with stacked buffers (250mA x2 or 3) and 4-5000 uF of power reserve

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProParadox Have you ever heard etys with a bit of bass boost?

Sony SCD-XA777ES > Behringer DEQ2496 / DSP8024 > RKV / HR-2 / XP-7 / DIY tubed integrated etc. You can end up getting quite a lot of bass volume but it is exactly what I mentioned earlier... the sound of a driver that's not really capable of doing it being driven to do so. It did get pretty close to the E5 on some occasions... but it always seemed 'stressed' and the infrastructure to do so was impractical.

 

[kyrie]

I agree with bangraman. I've tried boosting both using foobar EQ and bass boost on my PPA, but a lean bass being boosted is still a boosted lean bass. The basic tonality does not change, and the bass boost only makes it seem more artificial.

 

[random person]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus Here we go again. There seems to be a strong market for IEM's that are sonically better than the ER-4S or E5 but without the big price tag of the UE10-Pro or Sensa 2X-S. Ultimate Ears was going to develop some consumer models that filled this market, or at least that was the rumor a couple of months ago. Presumably this would be in the $400-$600 price range (this is my guess anyway) but designed for the audiophile consumer market (i.e., not designed to compete with the UE-5c). Any more news on this, or was it just a rumor?

Ultimate Ears did do this -- it's the UE5c, sells for $550, and is aimed at the audiophile consumer market. There is no compromise there -- for the price it provides excellent detail, great bass (lean and tight) and no roll-off on the highs. It's better than the stock IEMs out there plus you get the benefit of the custom fit. Yes it's $550 but that's not too much more than the Shure E5c. And the sound is wonderful. They are seriously worth considering.

 

[bangraman]

I suppose I should bite really. But probably not before I've said everything I have to say on the generic IEM's.

 

[bLue_oNioN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by random person Yes it's $550 but that's not too much more than the Shure E5c.

Could you please tell me how they are "not too much more" than the Shure E5Cs? The 550USD does not cover the molding fee, which brings the total up to 600USD. The Shure E5C is currently offered for sub-350USD. That's a 250USD difference. Or am I missing something?

 

[widds2v]

They are probably comparing the list price on the E5s, $499, which almost no one charges anymore.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus Ultimate Ears was going to develop some consumer models that filled this market, or at least that was the rumor a couple of months ago. Presumably this would be in the $400-$600 price range (this is my guess anyway) but designed for the audiophile consumer market (i.e., not designed to compete with the UE-5c). Any more news on this, or was it just a rumor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by random person Ultimate Ears did do this -- it's the UE5c, sells for $550, and is aimed at the audiophile consumer market.

No, what Wmcmanus is talking about, is that HRA, when he was still around, spread "insider news" of how UE has something amazing coming down the pipeline, cheaper & better than what they've got now for the consumer market or something akin to that. That's about 4 months ago now?.. Maybe 5 months? Can't remember the exact timeline. We haven't seen anything new yet. This is something that's completely separate from the UE5c.


Quote:

Originally Posted by bLue_oNioN Could you please tell me how they are "not too much more" than the Shure E5Cs? The 550USD does not cover the molding fee, which brings the total up to 600USD. The Shure E5C is currently offered for sub-350USD. That's a 250USD difference. Or am I missing something?

Good point, and very true. UE5c is now effectively almost twice as expensive as E5c now.

 

[random person]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bLue_oNioN Could you please tell me how they are "not too much more" than the Shure E5Cs? The 550USD does not cover the molding fee, which brings the total up to 600USD. The Shure E5C is currently offered for sub-350USD. That's a 250USD difference. Or am I missing something?

No, you're not. But once you're in the couple hundred dollars for a canalphone range, you might as well spend a little more, imho.

Anyway that's the same argument people have used with me to try to talk me into the Sensas, which are $200 more than what I've got!

By the time we're done here, the thread starter will spend $1000 on the UE10Pro!

 

[toaster]

the definitive word on this "new and upcoming" offering from ue (aside from the ue-5 as lindrone said) is in fact, NO, ue does not have something planned for release in the immediate future.

i had asked this question myself of both companies (sensaphonics as well) and neither company has anything new like this (universal fitting/relatively inexpensive) coming down the pike any time soon.

the reason for this, is that a universal offering of such a high-end product is simply a stupid idea. there's really nothing else to say. if you want to spend over 500 dollars on an iem, you want it custom molded, plain and simple. i know i did. it's like sticking an m3 engine in a ford taurus' body. if you're gonna shell out good money (and custom iem's costs major dough) for a high quality product, it just doesn't make sense to skimp in certain areas. (in this case, the custom molding is actually a MAJOR aspect, contributing to fit, comfort, and overall sound quality) besides, the market you are selling to is already willing to spend the money, they want nothing less than the best.

i would venture to guess the 500 dollar price-point ue-5c's will be the cheapest iem likely to be seen by either ue or sensaphonics any time soon.

at this time, there is simply no market for universal fitting 500 dollar custom iem's. think about it.

 

[widds2v]

I'm just curious, do sensaphonics or UE offer any kind of return policy? I would venture towards the negative side, but it's something I would look at especially considering you shell out over $500 and they don't fit anyone elses ears.

 

[kyrie]

Whether custom molding will actually be a benefit, sound-wise, is kind of doubtful. I recall the certain people (or a person) tried the Shures E5 with custom molding (two different types, if I recall) as well as various universal sleeves, and concluded that the custom molding didn't really have an advantage sound-wise on the universal fit sleeves, and occasionally didn't even improve on comfort! And it doesn't improve on isolation either. So what improves? I suppose the most significant different would be comfort, but some people can live fine with universal fit sleeves.
Stupid? I'd say far from it. At least it would improve resale value, and so more people would be willing to try it out. IMO the idea that universal fit sleeves should not be used for high-end IEMs is about as stupid as the masses' conception that "earphones" shouldn't cost over $20. And so,
Quote:

at this time, there is simply no market for universal fitting 500 dollar custom iem's. think about it.

Yes there is. There definitely is. You think about it.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrie Yes there is. There definitely is. You think about it.

Yes, there is, and I would be one of them. Just the other day, I was listening to an especially touching song on my Ety's, and when my wife walked in, I let her enjoy the moment with the Ety's, which she really loves the sound of.

Same thing with others. I just pop out the Ety's, clean them, and let others experience the magic, be it Tom Waits, Loretta Lynn, Lara St. John. Same thing I do with my speaker setup. I really enjoy sharing great musical experience.

To me custom IEM's are selfish phones, more so than the usual selfish nature of audiophiledom.

I also do not believe custom moldings are required for the best sound. I find Ety tri-flanges (with bi-flange mod) plenty comfortable and sonically wonderful.

Produce the Sensaphonics or Ultimate Ears with tri-flanges, which will cut down on prices since they don't need to customize. Minus the Audiology fees (and hassel, time costs). And yes, I am 10x more likely to purchase one, as are many others I suspect.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by widds2v I'm just curious, do sensaphonics or UE offer any kind of return policy? I would venture towards the negative side, but it's something I would look at especially considering you shell out over $500 and they don't fit anyone elses ears.

No, there's no return policy at all. They only guarantee fit & comfort, if you want to return it because you don't like the sound, you can't. They'll keep on making it until fit & comfort is right.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrie Whether custom molding will actually be a benefit, sound-wise, is kind of doubtful. I recall the certain people (or a person) tried the Shures E5 with custom molding (two different types, if I recall) as well as various universal sleeves, and concluded that the custom molding didn't really have an advantage sound-wise on the universal fit sleeves, and occasionally didn't even improve on comfort! And it doesn't improve on isolation either. So what improves? I suppose the most significant different would be comfort, but some people can live fine with universal fit sleeves.

That person would include yours truly.. and this is a very,very badly interpreted result of what I've said about custom molding.

The reason why custom molding would be very significantly beneficial to the improvement of the sound quality, is the extra level of control that it exerts over the mixing of sound and the way the sound reacts to your inner ear canal.

As anyone who's owned canalphones know about the nuisances of going through different sleeve/tip to get the sound that's pleasurable to one's ear. The reason this happens, is that due to the variance to each ear canal, the way canalphone interacts with the acoustic chamber that's present inside your ear varies. Although there's a general concensus (ear canal can only vary so much) of the sound signature, there's slight variance that can easily be made to each person's ear.

Custom molded IEM eliminates a huge part of this, because the shape of the custom mold is specifically made for your ears, and the reach of the canal portion of the custom molding goes all the way into the first bend of your ear canal. The only variance left is the last short distance between the first bend of your ear canal to the eardrum (I'm not using medically correct terms here.. hehehe..). This eliminates a huge area of variance that happens from ears to ears. Furthermore, the driver placement in the custom mold is placed so that distance of the driver to the opening in the canal portion is also somewhat controlled, guaranteeing some control over the final sound mixing that occurs in your ear canal chamber.

Now, what I've said about custom molding not working, is directed at aftermarket custom molding attachments for universal fit IEM's. Universal fit IEM's are calibrated for the normal sleeves it comes with. A custom mold attachment will add additional distance to the end of the sound tube of the universal fit IEM's. The sound tube inside the custom mold itself will also have huge variance in orientation and direction. Since the drivers of the universal fit IEM isn't placed "inside" the custom mold, rather attached outside of it, the distance at which the drivers are placed, the sound tube distance are basically all out of the door.

Which means the original tuning of the driver will no longer be guaranteed, and even more variance in the sound is introduced. So some people might have good experience with custom molds, some people will have bad experience with the sound production afterwards. It's very unpredictable in that sense.

As far as comfort though, even custom mold attachment for universal fit IEM's will improve the comfort dramatically; if they were not as comfortable, you should've gotten them redone to the point where they're comfortable. Just as any well fit custom IEM's, they will seemingly disappear into your ears just as well. Well, except for the Westone custom fit I had, those were just crappy.


Anyway, in conclusion, custom fit IEM's are made that way for a very specific reason, and without it, it will in fact be much, much harder to achieve a controlled sound reproduction and satisfactory result for everyone. There is a definite reason why all the highest end IEM's had to be custom molded.

 

[toaster]

well, ok - you guys are in the minority i suppose.

when i laid down my 800 dollars, i wanted my canalphones to be as comfortable as possible. (anything over 500 and i would command this be done, but apparently you guys feel otherwise...that's cool)

so maybe a market does exist for universal fitting 500 dollar canalphones. the truth and the problem is that it is super, super tiny - as hardly any non-musicians buy sensas or ue's to begin with...and nearly every one of them expects it ALL at the price-point, as i did; custom molding included.) however, from a production standpoint, this market is far too small for the producers to bother with. if my word isn't good enough, check my uber thread...julie from sensaphonics confirms exactly this, after i speculated this being the reason, when the question as to why a universal iem had not come out from sensa before was initially posed.

so, ok. i stand corrected that there is in fact some sort of market (.1% of the people who buy from sensa or ue - which is about .1% of the population in itself) for ultra-expensive universal iem's.

unfortunately the demand up until now has been far from worthwhile for these companies to cater to, as is obvious from the fact that, well, they haven't.

with the advent of apple's ipod however, a new wave of on-the-go high-class (at least according to apple) music listeners have been born. it is primarily these people that ue and sensa now are catering to, non-musicians for the first time. sensa just is now marketing their top-end to audiophiles, while ue produced a new cheaper model - the ue-5c.

bottom line - to this point there is not enough of a market for either sensa or ue to produce a universal fitting iem of such high quality. however, it is my speculation, that soon enough that prospect may become more appealing to high-end iem companies, as more and more people buy portable music players and desire high quality sound on-the-go.