[JeffL]

Well, I purchased some Shure E3s from IDealSound just a few days ago. What I am wondering is whether or not what I am hearing is right..because these phones...well, to put this bluntly, they suck, so far.

I received them this morning, from the Airborne (now DHL) guy. They are tiny! I've tried all the different tips, and so far I find that I like the large gray flanges, and the foamies the best, with the foamies offering the most comfortable fit and isolation out of all of the tips.

The small size of these things certainly is amazing, and I love the portable case with the spool to wrap them in, securely and easily. Certainly transporting these things will be no big deal compared to carrying my DT770 Pros around.

BUT, what I can't get over is the lackluster sound. I can describe it in 2 different ways. A) It sounds like I am standing in front of a large stack of mid-high range horns at a concert or a gig. B) It sounds like listening to a WAVE file encoded at 11khz or less. They are also muddy. The extension on both the high and low end has got to be seriously lacking here, and while the bass is audible is just unacceptable for my tastes. I listen to mainly rock and dance stuff. I have to have a nice deep low-end, such as the bass track at the beginning of Outkast - Speakerboxxx. While I realize I shouldn't be expecting that, when listening to accoustic type music these things are really muddy. The detail is certainly evident, but it sounds grainy, out of both my Audiovox PCDP and my Marantz.

Treble is very much emphasized, with a good midrange that really brings out the vocals, but unfortunately, with the dropoff at around 15khz(?) it makes these phones sound like my old Koss UR15s but with a much wider soundstage.

I am really unsure at this point about them, and really would like to get used to them, but don't think that will be happening.

So of course, this raises a question, namely, is this (for those who have experience with Shure E3 phones) what to expect in terms of sound from these cans? Is this lackluster sound the price to pay for the ultimate portability????

 

[lindrone]

Hmm... nope.. other than the lack of bass compared to your DT770, everything else shouldn't be as bad as you described them...

Are you playing MP3's from your CD player and PC?

 

[JeffL]

Yes, I've tried them in both. I've played MP3s and FLAC stuff.

 

[gerG]

I am still debating whether to keep mine. I like the fit (foamies only). They work great in the gym, and they seem to be rugged. I added a collar clip to keep the wire from tugging at my head.

They are also absurdly efficient out of a portable. Not a bad thing.

The sound is the letdown. Seems like an agressive upper midrange, with a plummet from around 5k on up. I've found 2 things that really help:

1 - Plug them into the high impedance spout of a Corda. I am not sure if I can trust my ears, but my brain thinks that the difference is very positive.

2 - Equalizer to the rescue. I am stuck with the "Latin" setting on the ipod. At the office I am still goofing around with the old Ultracurve Pro. Just throwing a wide feedback filter at 1khz (2 octaves wide by -6db) does wonders. That combined with the Corda's 120 ohm output makes a pretty good sounding system.


Good luck

gerG

 

[JeffL]

Equalization is great, but I don't really appreciate the use of an equalizer. Besides, according to the graphs at headroom for the E3, I would need about 5db at 4khz, 10 at 6khz, 5 at 7khz, and 20dB+ from 9khz on up.

Not only is that a massive amount of eq, but I don't have an EQ on my CDP in the first place, so that is out. No bass boost either...not that I've ever needed it until now!

Efficiency is great, but it makes my PCDP sound like a poorly tuned FM radio. This sucks, it really does.

So I am left wondering, should I return these to Idealsound and suffer the 15% restocking fee, or just sell them. Or, should I keep them...or s hould I go for the Etys? Though the graphs of the Etys don't look much more promising than the E3 graph or the E5 graph.

Since I drained my savings on these, keeping them is really a crappy option, since I would love to have spent it on some music or perhaps the DT990s.

This really is disappointing, to the point it is depressing.

I will sleep on it (literally), I have a retreat this weekend. We'll see.


I have no idea how these phones have such a wrap around here. I mean..this is NOT hi-fi by any means, in my opinion. These sound worse than the sound system at my CHURCH....

 

[bangraman]

Going straight from big bassy cans to Etys/E3 is something of an experience. Both of them usually sound rather tinny in comparison. The E5 sounds slightly better usually.


However as you get used to the canalphones, your perception changes. I'd suggest exclusive use of the E3 (or Ety if you're having similar problems with those) for a while, and not with the grey tips... although they are the most comfortable, I think sonically they suck the most.

 

[drssyoon]

I am not a hi-fi expert, but I think I know the sound I enjoy. I just "upgraded" from E2 to E3 and I, too, am disappointed. E3s are much more efficient, but to my untrained ears they are very fatigue-ing compared to E2s. I cannot listen to them for too long. I may have to get use to them, but I did not have that problem with E2s. Since I have sold my E2s, I guess I will have to live with these. I really don't think they are worth 2x the price of E2s.

 

[TMC]

Being a happy owner of the E3c I must say I'm pretty surprised by these experiences. I've read a lot about these and Etys when trying to make up my mind and I find bangraman's description of E3c's sonic character to coincide really well with my own experience. It's true I find the mids are pronounced and the treble is a bit laidback but from my experience it's nowhere as bad as what I've read about in this thread. The only thing I can suggest is try out the different sleeves for a longer period, especially if you're new to canalphones it can take a bit of effort to get it right.

 

[JeffL]

Quote:

Originally posted by drssyoon I am not a hi-fi expert, but I think I know the sound I enjoy. I just "upgraded" from E2 to E3 and I, too, am disappointed. E3s are much more efficient, but to my untrained ears they are very fatigue-ing compared to E2s. I cannot listen to them for too long. I may have to get use to them, but I did not have that problem with E2s. Since I have sold my E2s, I guess I will have to live with these. I really don't think they are worth 2x the price of E2s.

Really? Would you say the E2 had more bass than the E3? Was it less muddy in the mid-bass?


The reason I went for the E3 over the E2 was because I had heard that the E2 had less refined, more muddy bass (I think-don't quote me on that...I'd have to go back and find whomever it was who said that). Maybe I should've gone with the E2s?


I just don't feel it when wearing these phones. I suppose I could get used to the sound, but they are cold and sterile compared to my 770s (well duh!). Honestly, I had no trouble carrying around the 770s either, for what they were. Small price to pay for their sound IMO.

 

[drssyoon]

Since I no longer have my E2s, I cannot compare them side by side with E3s. One thing that I can say for sure is that E3s have much brighter mid-upper range - for example a snare rim shot has almost too crisp sound. It is almost painful. I did not remember this kind of sound with E2s. Does this mean E2s are more muddy? I don't know. I just feel that E2s were more enjoyable to listen to. They may not be as "accurate," but much more listenable. I listen to music not to analyze the sound, but to enjoy the music. That being said, perhaps the whole price/performance curve is asymptotic - more money does not necessarily translate into same amount of increase in performance as you get closer to that magic point of musical nirvana.

 

[wildeone]

Quote:

Originally posted by JeffL Really? Would you say the E2 had more bass than the E3? Was it less muddy in the mid-bass? The reason I went for the E3 over the E2 was because I had heard that the E2 had less refined, more muddy bass (I think-don't quote me on that...I'd have to go back and find whomever it was who said that). Maybe I should've gone with the E2s? I just don't feel it when wearing these phones. I suppose I could get used to the sound, but they are cold and sterile compared to my 770s (well duh!). Honestly, I had no trouble carrying around the 770s either, for what they were. Small price to pay for their sound IMO.

I'm one of those who prefers the bass of the E2's and thinks it is better bang for the buck. It's great for at the gym. (Very much enjoyable bass.) Some call it muddier -- which may be -- I just know it's more. Overall sound, however, is more refined on the E3's -- so the E2's are more veiled, though less harsh. I don't know that these are what you're looking for.... And if you consider the E3's cold and sterile, I wouldn't even think about the Etys -- they are all about detail, not the visceral. You'll have no muddiness, but you also won't have the kick you seem to want. If you really want to "feel it," you'll need to go up to the E5's. Period.

Give the E3's a bit more time (they truly shouldn't sound nearly that bad), but if you've only got a certain budget perhaps you should go back to the 770's. If you don't need the isolation of canal phones, stick with the ones you're happy with. A canal phone will never have the impact of big one. (Some people adjust, other's do not.) The Shure E5 comes closest to what you want....

 

[Zuerst]

If quantitative bass as opposed to the so called quality/refined/clear/whatever bass is what you want, the EX71'z go plenty... I think the EX70'z got even more(quantitavely) albit muddy bass... I typically run miles with them so quality is really not of concern...

 

[toaster]

hey, sorry to hear about your dissatisfaction with your expensive purchase. if you haven't read my "warning to all e3 owners and buyers" thread, i think you should check it out as i believe you may be experiencing similar feelings as i did.

"I listen to mainly rock and dance stuff." - you said that in the thread starting post.

Let me say this - the E3's from my experience SUCK with dance music. There bass doesn't cut it for me. I compose techno music (if that's worth anything) and these don't sound acceptable to me for most dance music.

The performance of the E3's with Pop, i tend to think is highly dependent on the quality of the recording itself. The E3's can sound phenomenal with well-recorded pop and worse than mx-400's on other pop songs. I feel this is due to the level of quality the E3's convey all the time. While the mx-400's will sound fine with bad recordings (since they can't convey the bad quality of the recording) the E3's will sound worse because they do reveal the bad quality of the recordings.

There is no question the E3's have the potential to be great phones. If you're looking for phones that emphasize midrange, (ie. guitars) and that sound full, you'll find that the e3's can be extremely satisfying. (whether or not it's worth the 175 dollars is up to your wallet and how strong a desire you have for phones capable of reproducing these subtleties.)

It is important to realize, every time someone talks about phone A costing this and phone B costing that, and phone A can't possibly be 10X better just because it costs 10X more, It's TRUE. (For example, the CD 3000 vs. R 10 = $300 vs. $3000 - The R 10 is not 10X better than the CD 3000. One is simply better at conveying certain subtleties. If the subtleties are worth it to you, than you will be willing to spend your money. If you're looking for the subtleties that a specific phone has to offer, you will be satisfied.

If you're looking for the subtleties in quality of bass FOR DANCE MUSIC, the E3's may set you up for disappointment.

*I have come to realize that as headphiers the only thing we are really ever paying for are SUBTLETIES.

We are audiophiles because we hear little nuances that make us addicted to music. When i compare the mx-400's to the E3's they sound similar at first, but on slightly closer comparison, i realize how many more subtle details I am looking for, are conveyed in the E3c's. It's all about the subtleties.

So, where i am going with this?

In my opinion, the E3's definitely are capable of providing the subtleties that some people are looking for. For pop (well-recorded) the E3's can sound phenomenal. Nearly all orchestral music sounds outstanding to my ears as well (so full, lush and detailed.)

For dance music however, (which you say you listen to) the E3's to my ears DON'T CUT IT, thus your unhappiness. (If you read my thread, you'll see that i hurt my ears temporarily blasting the E3's trying to even the frequency range, due to the midrange hump and preceivable lack of lows and highs. I found that at extremely loud volumes the E3's "fill out" and their mid-range hump tends appears to fall. But with the coming of this discovery, went the hearing in my right ear for 3 days. This is fact happened while i was listening to dance music.

In the end, i see your problem as your choice of music. The E3's are a mixed bag when it comes to satisfactory music reproduction, but then again so is almost any phone, since each phone does certain subtleties better than others. While I feel the E3 is amazing with some music, I feel it is only alright with others. I was willing to deal with these ups and downs because what sounded good sounded so good. After my hearing loss, my perspective on this changed however.

If i only listened to dance music and some poorly recorded pop songs, i would be REALLY PISSED that i shelled out the dough for the E3's. For you, that seems like it may be the case.

If you listen mainly to bass heavy music, (as you do) when the E3 tries to reach into its bag of tricks, to your ears it's gonna come up emptyhanded. The truth of the matter is in my experience and based on your musical taste, they don't have the bass someone like you is looking for. I don't know if they are in your price range, but i am going to buy the E5's with the hopes that they will be able to provide the kind of bass someone like you is looking for, while retaining (and maybe even refining) everything i came to love about the E3's before they damaged my ear. If the E5's deliver the bass, they will be everything I am looking for, and perhaps what you are looking for as well.

 

[mbk]

It's really interesting to see the wide range of opinions the E3 provokes. Initially, it scared me away from them, too. I was fortunate enough to have the E2, E3, and Ety ER-4P all at the same time. In my mind, there was no doubt that the E3 was the phone I liked the most. There were certain times I liked the E2 and certain times I liked the ER-4P, but overall it wasn't really a contest. The E3s are it.

I would suggest you take bangraman's advice and listen to them exclusively for a few weeks. Shure phones are emphatically unimpressive on first listens. I remember when I got the ER-4P (after having the E2s for a while) I was like "Wow, these are amazing." The Shures definitely don't make you say that. But after a week with the ER-4P, I hated them. I love the E3 and really appreciate the sound now.

I honestly wouldn't recommend downgrading to the E2. The highs are really veiled compared to the E3... almost like having cotton in your ears. The bass is certainly warmer, but I really don't think it's any stronger than the E3. I know some people will disagree with me on that, but I honestly don't hear much difference in terms of impact.

And yeah, don't even consider the Etys. They are certainly not what you're looking for.

 

[JeffL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster22 If you listen mainly to bass heavy music, (as you do) when the E3 tries to reach into its bag of tricks, to your ears it's gonna come up emptyhanded. The truth of the matter is in my experience and based on your musical taste, they don't have the bass someone like you is looking for. I don't know if they are in your price range, but i am going to buy the E5's with the hopes that they will be able to provide the kind of bass someone like you is looking for, while retaining (and maybe even refining) everything i came to love about the E3's before they damaged my ear. If the E5's deliver the bass, they will be everything I am looking for, and perhaps what you are looking for as well.

Well, when you get the e5s, do let me know if the bass is more present. I would appreciate that even though the e5s are way out of my price range.


In the meantime, I will experiment with the e3s and the seal and see if I can work any extra bass out, otherwise I think I will sell or return these. At least 1 week though of listening.


Really though, this isn't entirely about the bass...also the roll-off of high frequencies. I can stand the amount of bass I am getting for accoustic stuff, like guitar or piano, but with the roll-off at 5khz its like a poorly encoded wave file...yuck. Try converting a file to an 8khz WAVE and you'll see what I mean.