Shunting the pot
Sep 4, 2006 at 10:41 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 44

Black Stuart

MOT: Deep Sound Cables
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Posts
379
Likes
13
This is a really simple and cheap mod to try. Most people who do it, stay with it. Most who do it rate it as equal or better than a stepped attenuator, it's certainly a damn sight cheaper and a lot less work and solder connections.

I first used it in my World Audio Design Mk1 h/amp and though I knew from numerous postings by mates on the old WAD forum that it was very effective, like anything in life - you have to experience things for yourself.

Quite simply it removes layers of mush (that you did'nt know existed) and there is just so much more clarity as a result. What it will not do is change the balance of your piece of equipment.

I can do no better than reproduce the explanation from this month's copy of Hi-Fi World made by Peter Comeau, the man who designed so many great speakers for Heybrook's and Mission in the past.

Petercom - "Talking of volume controls brings us on to the upgrade options. There has in recent years, been considerable interest in using an L-pad switched volume control instead of the ubiquitious potentiometer.

The common sense approach is that passing the signal through two high quality resistors and a switch is better than through the vagaries of a potentiometer track and wiper. In practice the subjective difference is small and perhaps not worth the considerable expense of the L-pad attenuator. However there is another way of acheiving much the same object - the shunt attenuator.

Here the volume control is fed from a high value resistor and the potentiometer connected as a shunt to ground. The signal passes only through the resistor - the pot. then justs acts as a variable resistor to ground as part of the L-pad. It is tempting to think that any old pot. can then be used, because the signal is not passing through it, but in fact the pot. is in parallel with the input stage so any noise due to the pot will appear on top of the input signal. Use a quality pot. like the Alps however and your main improvement is that the signal in this arrangement is affected only by the quality of the series resistor.

There is a downside or course, there always is! This arrangement gives a 6dB loss of signal level. For most sources this won't be an issue."

In practice I can say that it is not a problem, in my h/amp it just means I have to turn the volume control a little higher.

Earlier I said "it will not change the balance of your equipment - it won't but by using different types of resistor you can change the character. You should notice better cleaner bass, far more seperation of instruments etc. Whatever the rating of your pot, you should aim to use resistors of about 90% of that value ie. 50K pot. use a 47K resistor. 1/2W resistors are fine. There is a lot of crap talked about carbon Rs - if you listen mainly to CD think about using quality carbons, it may soften the sound a bit. Then there are Tantalum, which I use or Vishay (can create a hard sheen) whatever.

Where your pot. connects to the PCB or tag boards, just solder in series to signal and ground. If you are happy with this mod (and the chances are you will be very happy, if the legs on the resistors are long enough and the connection close to the pot. you can remove the existing wires altogether and solder the resistor legs directly from pot. to PCB/tagboard.

In no way can this upset your pre-amp/amps - just be careful with the soldering iron inside your amps - suck and see.

Stuart
 
Sep 4, 2006 at 12:08 PM Post #2 of 44
Now, that's an interesting idea. Nice! Still thinking about divider ratios and possible problems, but so far I can't see any real catch - though I wonder what impact a variable input resistence of the amp might have on the output of the source. However, what I can't really follow is your soldering description, which puzzles me - the "just solder in series to signal and ground" part, that is...

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini
 
Sep 4, 2006 at 12:37 PM Post #3 of 44
Indeed very interesting! My amps manual states that in no case i should ever short the headphone output to ground or earth, due to the circuity used in that amp. So can i still try this small mod?
wink.gif


Are there any pictures on this?
 
Sep 4, 2006 at 12:58 PM Post #4 of 44
Hi Lini,
I can see your problem
blink.gif
. renag Mk1 - signal wires carrying source signal into the pot and signal wires carrying amplified source signal out plus of course, both incoming/outgoing wiring earthed. Locate the left and right channel o/put wires, desolder at PCB or tagboard and solder your chosen resistors in series to these connections. When you are happy and if the path is short enough remove the original wires and just use the resistor legs. Of course this will not be possible in all cases but I obsess about keeping wiring to a minimum and the less solder joints the better. You really can't mess up your pre/head or power amps because you are not changing any settings. Putting it very simply you are only changing the mechanism by which you adjust volume and in the process, changing the quality of the signal relayed to your pre/head/ power amp. Hope this clears things up.

I personally would never go down the expensive attenuator route again.

BTW Lini have you tried, or know anyone who has tried the new Thel pots. It's very hard to do business with them because they won't take credit cards or Paypal and in southern Europe as a whole you get screwed by the banks - Spain and Italy for sure. Many in Germany/Holland/Belgium are blissfully unaware that this problem exists.

There are two types of Thel pots. available and I think that the cheaper one about E30 would be fine but it would be nice to have some input from those that have tried them. I would imagine they would have a sonic signature quite similar to the Panasonic, I would believe they were introduced to pick up where the dis-continued Pans left off. I will pm you further on this.

bizkid - it's your potentiometer I'm talking about. If you have an integrated amp then it must have a volume control of some sort, be it pot. or attenuator - that's where the mod is done.

Take a look at http://www.world-designs.co.uk/forum...read.php?t=198. I'm not sure if you can access without joining.

Stuart
 
Sep 4, 2006 at 2:54 PM Post #5 of 44
Stuart: Getting it - the resistors replace the connections between the board and the input of the pot by connecting the board to the wipers of the pot. I was just misleaded by that "to signal and ground"... But why would you rather connect the resistors to the pot than to the pads where the leads from the wipers would go? Or was it meant that way, that if the resistor legs are long enough, one could use that from going from the board to the wipers and back to the board (i.e. then having two solder points on the same resistor leg per channel - one to the wiper, one to the board - plus a third solder point to the board on each other resistor leg...)?

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: You should already have my pm reply in your box...

P.P.S.: Uhm - now I'm really puzzled. Just thinking again, whether it would possibly reverse the volume knob, if one did it the way I just described... Oh, confusion...
wink.gif
 
Sep 4, 2006 at 4:18 PM Post #7 of 44
Quote:

Originally Posted by GIGANTOID
I thought this thread was about something completely different.


Well, that kind of pot would make a rather bad shunt, I'd claim. And if you're looking for vaporizer techniques, I guess this is the wrong forum altogether.
wink.gif


Grinnings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: Stuart: Just thought again: I forgot to imagine the initially reversed (in relation to knob movement) connections on the pot, I guess. So the volume knob shouldn't work reversed after the modification as described above - confusion solved. Just hope I haven't confused you, now...
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Sep 4, 2006 at 4:32 PM Post #8 of 44
Is it possible to get a sample schematic for this mod? Having trouble imagining it from the description.
blink.gif
 
Sep 4, 2006 at 5:04 PM Post #9 of 44
*doodle* That should be it - here you are:

attachment.php


Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini
 
Sep 4, 2006 at 5:26 PM Post #10 of 44
LAT Axiom PreAmp

This idea has been around long time, one of the most popular "minimalist passive" preamps is the Luminous Audio Tech Axiom.........uses variable shunt to single high quality caddock resistor.

I had custom unit made with two noble pots to allow both volume/balance control. LAT only needs to know output level of your CDP/DAC to custom make unit that provides best useable volume control range.
 
Sep 4, 2006 at 5:58 PM Post #11 of 44
The MarsVolta (great handle)

I gave the forum where you can see a diagram. There was a now defunct forum which was the forerunner to World-Design where all kinds of discussions tok place about which pot pins to use but unfortunately this has gone to the happy hunting grounds.

If anyone is interested just open up your amps and take a look at your pots and all will become clear - it really is a no-brainer and I doubt that anyone will be dissapointed. By all means try all kinds of carbons and metal film. Looking at the tweaks on that forum again they rec. metal film with Alps Blue - whatever floats your boat - if one type of resistor does'nt do it - try another. But you will definately notice a difference. With really good phones/speakers and amps it is more than subtle. Just remember to use resistors of about 90% of the pots. value - go try.
 
Sep 5, 2006 at 2:47 PM Post #12 of 44
lini - great sketch!

Black Stuart - thanks for the link, I missed it the first time. Wondering if it's possible to do this mod on a Pimeta, where the pot is directly mounted on the board. Mine has a 50k pot, so I'd need a 45k resistor. The choices for resistors is mind-boggling - metal film, carbon, or tantalum??
confused.gif
 
Sep 5, 2006 at 8:31 PM Post #13 of 44
The MarsVolta,
no, not a 45K resistor, OK you can if you want but for a 50K pot use 47K, remember 90% of the pots. value.

Yes the possiblities are many but remember - quality resistors only. The closer the tolerance the better and something else I should have mentioned but would be obvious to most who mod - measure both resistors and make sure they have the same 'actual' value. If you do this already you will know there are variations with even the best quality resistors.

Eg. if you are building an RIAA circuit for phono - it's vital to measure and match everything, including caps around this circuit too.

Stuart
 
Sep 6, 2006 at 11:41 PM Post #14 of 44
Does it matter wich value you use? I can get tantalum resistors from Audio Note ranging from 1/2 watt to 2 watts. According to them, the 2 watt types sounds best! Way much better then the 1/2 watt types. So, i can use the 2 watt types as well?!
 
Sep 7, 2006 at 12:22 AM Post #15 of 44
Tourmaline,
for this application you don't need the 2 watt resistors. Just stick to ordering the 1/2 Watt they will be fine. 2 watters are for parts of a curcuit (valve) where lots of heat is generated. I have suggested trying metal film and carbon as well. What make of pot. do you have?

RS carbon are cheap - try these as well.

Enjoy the music - Stuart
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top